MacInTouch Amazon link...
Channels
Products
I believe you can go into the bundles and manually delete the fonts, but I'm not sure if this has any impact on the running of the applications or the ability to update them (which is important due to inherent security risks of using Microsoft Office applications).
Thanks. I researched that and found a few threads at the Microsoft support site in which people who had tried that found that Word crashed on startup; the only solution was a complete re-install. As I get older, I become more pain-intolerant, so I'm not going to take the chance :-)

I get that the fonts were embedded so that Microsoft could sell Office at the App Store -- but why not just use Apple's fonts and standard way of calling them? Sure, Windows is different, but one would think that just a touch extra amount of work would lead to a better Mac experience.

Or, we need a third-party solution, but alas, I bet there's no market for that.
 



I get that the fonts were embedded so that Microsoft could sell Office at the App Store -- but why not just use Apple's fonts and standard way of calling them? Sure, Windows is different, but one would think that just a touch extra amount of work would lead to a better Mac experience.
Several things are going on here, some of which we may not be privvy to, e.g. licensing deals for the distribution of fonts with Microsoft Office. One specific thing is that Microsoft has their own software to draw their windows on the display, even in macOS – as Ric has pointed out, this is for better cross-platform visual compatibility. Another specific thing is that some of the Microsoft versions of the fonts are actually better than the ones Apple provide! So replacing the Apple version of the fonts with the Microsoft versions will give you a better "experience."

I'm not sure of the differences on the very latest, current versions, but a few years back when I consulted for a publishing company, a very knowledgable person about fonts (his knowledge went back to the original metal hand-typesetting of letters), was doing an analysis of all the fonts that came with macOS, Microsoft Office, and Adobe software so that we could build the best standard set of fonts that would be on all their company's Mac installations. He discovered that many of the Microsoft versions were better typographically, with better ligatures, glyphs, character sets, etc, or even just plain visually!

Your milage may vary.
 


For those who haven’t noticed:

On Windows, Microsoft substitutes the 13 standard Postscript typefaces for their ‘proprietary ones‘ at print (i.e. Helvetica for Arial, Times Roman for New Times Roman, and so forth), unless you specify font downloading during printing. So when you print, you still get [to play] Guess What You Get because of the font substitution instead of WYSIWYG. Insofar as I’m concerned, Microsoft’s typefaces are still just a licensing fee dodge from Microsoft. When I use Microsoft products on Windows, I always turn off font substation and font downloading to prevent the issue.

With regard to changing platforms, I‘ve found MS Office products' on-screen appearance (layout, etc.) to be highly dependent on the version of Office, the version of Windows, and the selected default printer. Problems are not relieved by using Microsoft fonts on either Windows or Mac.

In my former shipping store/printing business, I hated when someone sent me the Word, Powerpoint, or other document to print in their native formats. Unless they were in-store to review the on-screen appearance with my store’s Windows and MS Office installations, I would ask them to generate a PDF and send them instructions on how to do so using either Windows/MS Office’s built in export capability or by using cutePDF Writer.

Note: I always produced Acrobat PDF files and uploaded them to the printers, not printing by Windows printer drivers. The software package for the printers was designed to use and manipulate PDF file to correctly replicate colors, collate, bind, preview, etc. Saved ink and click charges that way.
 



On Windows, Microsoft substitutes the 13 standard Postscript typefaces for their ‘proprietary ones‘ at print (i.e. Helvetica for Arial, Times Roman for New Times Roman, and so forth), unless you specify font downloading during printing. So when you print, you still get [to play] Guess What You Get because of the font substitution instead of WYSIWYG.
Please give more details. This is confusing me in several ways.

First, aren't we long past the days of "screen fonts" and "printer fonts" in Windows?

Second, isn't the font substitution printer-dependent? For example, if you're printing via PostScript to a PostScript printer, and the printer has built-in (raster) PostScript fonts, then the presumption used to be that printer's fonts were higher resolution than what Windows had; therefore, the printer would substitute it. Does this still happen, and is it just for the PostScript drivers? What about when printing to a PCL printer?

Third, I've seen evidence before that Windows, and Microsoft Word in particular, is actually WYPIWYS: What you print is what you see. That is, Word changes the on-screen formatting to match the font metrics of the current printer. You could see the Word document change just by selecting a different printer, even though you haven't touched the document at all.

That's also the explanation for a weird Word symptom: your document is displayed as monospace even though you're using proportional fonts. That happens when you accidently change the current printer to one that only supports monospace characters, such as the Line Printer. Since the printer only supports monospace, Word changes the displayed document to also be monospace: WYPIWYS.
 


Kurt Lang is a photo retoucher and prepress specialist who keeps up on fonts with regard to macOS, Apple apps, Microsoft Office, Adobe apps and much more. Each time after I upgrade macOS, I refer to his Font Management for macOS guide. His most recent version is dated January 10, 2020.
Warning: It's a lot of information, so go slowly.
Thank you! I was trying to remember this guy for referencing here, and both my memory and my bookmarks betrayed me. Type nerds to the rescue!
 


Kurt Lang is a photo retoucher and prepress specialist who keeps up on fonts with regard to macOS, Apple apps, Microsoft Office, Adobe apps and much more. Each time after I upgrade macOS, I refer to his Font Management for macOS guide. His most recent version is dated January 10, 2020.
Warning: It's a lot of information, so go slowly.
That is a treasure trove of information. A big thank you (and contribution) to Mr. Lang.
 


Kurt Lang is a photo retoucher and prepress specialist who keeps up on fonts with regard to macOS, Apple apps, Microsoft Office, Adobe apps and much more. Each time after I upgrade macOS, I refer to his Font Management for macOS guide. His most recent version is dated January 10, 2020.
Warning: It's a lot of information, so go slowly.
His font guide is one of my must-have resources when I install an OS. He has also been a helpful voice in Apple's User Discussions, where too many rude, opinionated jerks tend to dominate.
 


Happy Camper News Flash!

Affinity Publisher now imports InDesign IDML files, and it does a great job at it. Dozens of files we've tested open amazingly well and require little if any tweaking. Links to original resource files (tiffs, eps, pdf, etc.) are retained or easily re-linked, the same way InDesign IDML relink works. Retaining links was something we missed opening PDF files and was an obstacle to full adoption. This update fixes that.

In becoming free of Adobe shackles, we do need IDML re-saves of old jobs, so Affinity can open them. Daunting initial thought, but Creative Pro has a great InDesign script to batch-export Indesign files to IDML: Batch-convert/export files. It's free and fast. Just drop the JavaScript binary into your Scripts folder in InDesign. It converts folders of files. We've been batch-converting whole client folders to IDML. And those files now open in Affinity. It works. No more blackmail.

IDML import is good enough and what we needed. We're standardizing on Affinity from here and encouraging my clients and agencies we work with to do the same. I think it's possible to become Adobe-free! (big party to come)
 



The security update to Acrobat Reader DC late last month may have broken editing, annotation and comments. Yesterday I annotated PDF page proofs in Acrobat Reader DC and sent them to the editor. I had noted some wonkiness when trying to mark changes, because the same procedures did not seem to work all the time, but once I managed to make the changes they seemed to stay made. This morning the editor reports that no changes are on the proof I sent her, and I could not find anything on my copy this morning. Saves do not appear to stick. Trying again this morning, I noticed changes may stick if I open the "comments" sidebar, where changes and markup is shown, but that was not required before. Is anybody else encountering this?
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Serif/Affinity has responded to the coronavirus crisis by tripling the length of their free trial period and cutting their already inexpensive prices in half:
Serif said:
Affinity - Supporting the creative community
With all that’s going on right now due to the COVID-19 pandemic and in response to the many stories we’re hearing from the creative community about how they’re being severely impacted, we felt it was our responsibility to try to offer as much support as possible during this incredibly difficult time.

That’s why we’ve put in place three new measures which we hope will help at least some of you out there. These are:
  • A new 90-day free trial of the Mac and Windows versions of the whole Affinity suite
  • A 50% discount for those who would rather buy and keep the apps on Mac, Windows PC and iPad
  • A pledge to engage more than 100 freelance creatives for work, spending the equivalent of our annual commissioning budget in the next three months (more details of this will be announced soon).
The introduction of the 90-day free trial and deeply discounted pricing is done in the hope that this will make life a little easier for people who rely on creative software to make a living, but may be stuck at home without their usual tools, or for students who might not have access to their Affinity apps on their personal devices.

In addition, by increasing our spend on commissioning work from freelancers we can also put some extra money into a part of the industry which will be particularly affected.

We plan to make the free trial and additional discount available until 20 April, but we’ll continue to review the situation as time goes on.

We know we’re not saving the world, but we hope these measures can at least provide some form of relief to those who need it. We’ll pull through this together…
 



Adobe are offering 2 months free/payment holiday for Creative Cloud individual users because of the Coronavirus - typically for Adobe, it's not obvious or automatic, but instructions can be found over on Creative Bloq. I was successful in getting it for my wife yesterday evening (UK, all apps yearly subscription paid monthly).
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Serif has an interesting new initiative, in which they're soliciting creative works produced by freelancers with their Affinity software suite and will pay $1,500 for each of 100 items they select over the next 100 days.
Serif/Affinity said:
100 Days. 100 Commissions.
It’s exactly what it says on the tin—over the next 100 days, the Affinity team will commission paid work from 100 creative freelancers. This will be spread across a few projects, but the main drive will be behind asking our community to submit work as outlined in this article.
(The company is currently offering 90-day free trials and 50% discounts on their software, as well.)
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Serif has an interesting new initiative, in which they're soliciting creative works produced by freelancers with their Affinity software suite and will pay $1,500 for each of 100 items they select over the next 100 days.

(The company is currently offering 90-day free trials and 50% discounts on their software, as well.)
Affinity also updated the suite to Version 1.8.3, brings a number of fixes and improvements.

It hasn't been easy to find update info, but this forum posting seems to be covering it:

 


Adobe are offering 2 months free/payment holiday for Creative Cloud individual users because of the Coronavirus - typically for Adobe, it's not obvious or automatic, but instructions can be found over on Creative Bloq. I was successful in getting it for my wife yesterday evening (UK, all apps yearly subscription paid monthly).
Worked for me here in the US.
The short description is to login and go to your account page. Next to the description of your plan is a Cancel Plan link. Click that, tell them it is Too Expensive (others may work), click through them telling you why you should stay, and you get to an Offers page. Two free months was the first offer for me. Click that and you are done.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Serif/Affinity has responded to the coronavirus crisis by tripling the length of their free trial period and cutting their already inexpensive prices in half...
Serif has now extended the 50% Affinity products discount and 90-day free trial offer until May 20. They also extended the 100 Days, 100 Commissions contest for an extra week, to April 27.
Serif said:
Affinity - Supporting the creative community
... we’ve put in place three new measures which we hope will help at least some of you out there. These are:
 



I wonder how long it will take for Adobe (and other "subscription-only" or "subscription-dominant" software firms) to revert to "purchase" instead of "rent" models during the pandemic? I've seen some (very limited) reporting indicating that newly unemployed people (and there are a lot of those, suddenly) are dropping their software subscriptions to cut expenses. Could that be a motivator for companies like Adobe, Microsoft, Quicken, 1Password and others to offer more generous terms?
 


You can call Adobe and negotiate. I did so on behalf of my employer, and we were granted three free months for our CC Team subscription — a savings of $4560.
 


For Adobe CC users, could you please test this on your Macs?

In Adobe Illustrator 2020, start a new document, add text, and then assign the font Helvetica Regular (default font installed with macOS). Are you able to call up Helvetica Regular?

The family should be Helvetica (Regular), Oblique, Light, Light Oblique, Bold, and Bold Oblique. On both of my 2018 Mac Minis, the Regular face is absent in Illustrator. I tried this in macOS 10.15.4, 10.15.5 beta, and Mojave, with the same result.

Actually, this bug also showed up in Photoshop and InDesign about a month before but was fixed in subsequent CC updates. Only Illustrator remains affected. All other apps (e.g. iWork, MS Office 365, TextEdit, BBEdit, etc.) are okay.

Personally, I never use Helvetica in my documents, but when clients send me files using Helvetica Regular, it is problematic. I could substitute with a similar typeface, but this assumes that my client owns that substitute font and that it does not make a difference to them.

I reported this bug to Adobe support and used screen-sharing to show them what’s happening. The support person tried a number of “fixes” to no avail until, when he could not offer anything else, he simply quit from the chat with no explanation. I have done support sessions with Adobe and always had reasonably good results, or, at the very least, acknowledgement on their part that there was a bug.

I reported this behavior in my feedback to Adobe Customer Care with no positive result. They kept on telling me that the case is closed, and I kept on letting them know that it’s not resolved. I don’t understand how Adobe can be in denial all this time.

I’m not a supporter of Adobe, but the nature of my business makes it necessary that I have Adobe CC. I also own the Affinity suite, but none of my clients use them or are willing to even try.

Going back to my original question, if this Illustrator bug is not present in your setup, could you please let me know what you’re doing right?
 


For Adobe CC users, could you please test this on your Macs?
In Adobe Illustrator 2020, start a new document, add text, and then assign the font Helvetica Regular (default font installed with macOS). Are you able to call up Helvetica Regular? ...
All six styles of Helvetica are showing perfectly fine with my setup. Latest Mojave, latest Illustrator 2020. The font is indicated as being TrueType format.

You may need to "go nuclear" by uninstalling Illustrator via the CC app, then signing out of CC, then quitting the CC menubar app, then using EasyFind to search your entire boot drive for files and folders containing the word Illustrator, including invisible files, and deleting all obvious items (like Caches and App Support and Preferences) that have anything to do with Illustrator from both the main Library folder as well as the User Library folder, then rebooting, then emptying the trash, then signing back into CC, and finally reinstalling Illustrator.

Let us know how it goes.
 


For Adobe CC users, could you please test this on your Macs?
In Adobe Illustrator 2020, start a new document, add text, and then assign the font Helvetica Regular (default font installed with macOS). Are you able to call up Helvetica Regular? ...
Wow! I have never noticed what you describe, but a fast test resulted in exactly what you describe: Helvetica Regular is nowhere to be seen in Illustrator, only "Light", "Light Oblique", "Oblique", "Bold" and "Bold Oblique".

I have other Helveticas on my system but used my font manager to deactivate them (except for Helvetica Neue).

My setup: Illustrator CC 2020 (24.0.3), Linotype FontExplorer X Pro 7.0.0 (build 20457), macOS Catalina 10.15.5 (beta). MacBook Pro 13" 2018.

I cannot tell about my work computer (an iMac), but maybe it could happen on it, too.

Let's continue searching for explanations.
 


Wow! I have never noticed what you describe, but a fast test resulted in exactly what you describe: Helvetica Regular is nowhere to be seen in Illustrator, only "Light", "Light Oblique", "Oblique", "Bold" and "Bold Oblique"....
Alex, one thing that we have in common is macOS Catalina. In the previous reply to my comment, Scott_E stated that he was running Mojave. I do have a connected SSD to my Mac Mini with Mojave installed, but I don’t want to install Adobe CC on it, lest it create a problem with Adobe allowing CC to be installed on only two devices, even if Mojave would still be running on my first Mac.

The only reason for the Mojave installation is that I still have a couple of 32-bit applications that I cannot afford to do without. Aside from that, I have everything else running in Catalina.

I have already run the Adobe Creative Cloud Cleaner Tool to uninstall and reinstall both Creative Cloud desktop and Illustrator 2020, but the (missing) Helvetica issue persists.
 


I have found – through many years of trial and error, though various OS X attempts at handling fonts (something that has been in my opinion the greatest spectacular failure of OS X since Version 10.0) – that occasionally an application will not load all the fonts that a Font Manager or application calls for. Even though your Font Manager (or application) indicates that {missing font/weight} is activated, I have discovered that I still have to go to Font Book (remember that relic?) and actually turn "on" (enable) the entire family of the (font family) system fonts (usually in the base System/Library/Fonts folder) – then all the weights will show up in the problematic application.

It's worth a try, at least. You'd be surprised what Font Book turns "off" (i.e., overrides), even though the font manager and application are supposed to "automatically" load such fonts... (By the way, you will have to repeat this process every time you reboot your Mac and launch your Font Manager and applications.)
 


I have already run the Adobe Creative Cloud Cleaner Tool to uninstall and reinstall both Creative Cloud desktop and Illustrator 2020, but the (missing) Helvetica issue persists.
The Adobe CC Cleaner Tool does not, unfortunately, remove every single trace of Adobe parts & pieces. The free app from Devon Technologies, EasyFind, will allow you to find more Adobe leftovers, one or more of which may be the culprit in this issue. This is because EasyFind does not depend on or use the often-incomplete Spotlight search database.

And yes; Catalina may very well be the primary cause. Yet another valid reason to avoid jumping on the never-polished / not-ready-for-primetime OSes that Apple pushes out the door on a unrealistic and rushed schedule.
 


Amazon disclaimer:
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

Latest posts