MacInTouch Amazon link...

Apple compatibility issues

Channels
Apple
It's been announced that macOS 10.14 will run only 64-bit applications.

For the previous discussion, see: MacInTouch here.

Good article with a list of identified 32-bit apps, see: here.

My question:
How do we obtain an installer for macOS 10.13 now?
(We previously did something similar, obtaining El Capitan (10.11) installers.)

My reasons for asking:
1. I want to continue running Adobe CS6.
2. I am running OS X 10.7 until I can execute a project to backup an old grey & white Mac as a favor to a deceased friend's family. I do want to access the discs in target mode from my semi-modern (10.7) Mac without converting the discs to Core Storage that would render it unbootable.

TIA,
-Jim
 
Last edited by a moderator:


It's been announced that MacOS 10.14 will run only 64-bit applications.
Not quite. Apple has told users that in the future, 32-bit apps "will no longer run without compromise", without saying exactly what that means. There has been a lot of speculation, but that's all it is at this time - speculation.

Regarding the full 64-bit transition, Apple writes:
Apple said:
Why am I seeing this alert?
Starting with macOS High Sierra 10.13.4, apps that have not been updated to use 64-bit processes produce a one-time alert when opened. This gives users advance notice that they are running 32-bit software, which will not be compatible with macOS in the future.

Can I keep using my 32-bit apps?
Yes, you may continue to use 32-bit apps with your Mac today. Using 32-bit software has no adverse effects on your data or your computer.

When will the 64-bit transition be complete?
The 64-bit transition for macOS and macOS apps is still underway, so final transition dates have not yet been established. But now is a good time to check with the software developer to see if 64-bit versions of your favorite titles are available.
My question:
How do we obtain an installer for MacOS 10.13 now?
MacOS 10.13 (High Sierra) is available via the App Store. Since you're running 10.7, you should be able to just open the App Store. Go to the "Updates" tab and you should find an "Update Now" button.

Click "Update Now". This will download the installer and run it when it downloads. When the installer starts to run, do not continue but quit from the installer. The installer will remain on your hard drive in your Applications folder. You can copy it to a flash drive for safekeeping.

One caveat: Some people have gotten a stub installer, which downloads the real installer as a part of the installation process. Others have gotten the full installer. You can tell which is which by looking at the size of the installer application. If you have the stub, I don't know how you can force Apple to give you the full installer. You might try deleting it and re-downloading it from the App Store, but I don't know how likely that is to work.

Assuming you have the full installer, copy it to a flash drive or burn it to a DVD (dual-layer will be needed in order to hold it) for safekeeping. When you want to perform an installation, copy it back (if you deleted it) and run it.

I haven't looked at the 10.13 installer yet, but if it works like previous releases, then there should be a "createinstallmedia" script somewhere inside the installer package, which you can use to create a bootable flash drive that you can use to install macOS on a Mac that doesn't have a working OS.

I am running MacOS 10.7 until I can execute a project to backup an old grey & white Mac as a favor to a deceased friend's family. I do want to access the discs in target mode from my semi-modern (10.7) Mac without converting the discs to Core Storage that would render it unbootable.
As I understand it, the High Sierra installer will convert your startup volume to APFS (and all of volume management changes that go with it) if the volume is an SSD, but not if it is a hard drive or a Fusion Drive. If you manually launch the installer (from a Terminal window), then you can provide command-line arguments to change this behavior (to force conversion of a hard drive or to avoid converting an SSD).

If you run it with the option to make sure that it does not convert anything, then older Macs should still be able to read it.
 


One caveat: Some people have gotten a stub installer, which downloads the real installer as a part of the installation process. Others have gotten the full installer. You can tell which is which by looking at the size of the installer application. If you have the stub, I don't know how you can force Apple to give you the full installer. You might try deleting it and re-downloading it from the App Store, but I don't know how likely that is to work.
The macOS High Sierra Patcher application will get you the full download. I just used it yesterday to get the latest 10.13.4 installer.
 


Since the Bonjour feature of Safari was removed a few updates ago, I have gone back to using Bonjour Browser version 1.5.6, which is a 32-bit app. I emailed the developer to ask about the possibility of releasing a 64-bit compatible update. He said the code is so old that it needs a rewrite, which he's working on, but he can't promise a release date as he has very little spare time. Has anyone come across an alternative app for viewing Bonjour services on a local network?
 


Since the Bonjour feature of Safari was removed a few updates ago, I have gone back to using Bonjour Browser version 1.5.6, which is a 32-bit app. I emailed the developer to ask about the possibility of releasing a 64-bit compatible update. He said the code is so old that it needs a rewrite, which he's working on, but he can't promise a release date as he has very little spare time. Has anyone come across an alternative app for viewing Bonjour services on a local network?
Another reason not to update the Mac OS. I use Bonjour Browser all the time. Nice to know an update is at least a possibility.
 


Another reason not to update the Mac OS. I use Bonjour Browser all the time. Nice to know an update is at least a possibility.
your milage may vary, but my perspective would be more along the lines of...
Another reason to wait a month or two before updating to macOS 10.14, so I can learn from the experience of others exactly what is meant by 32-bit apps not running without compromise.
 


Since the Bonjour feature of Safari was removed a few updates ago, I have gone back to using Bonjour Browser version 1.5.6, which is a 32-bit app. I emailed the developer to ask about the possibility of releasing a 64-bit compatible update. He said the code is so old that it needs a rewrite, which he's working on, but he can't promise a release date as he has very little spare time. Has anyone come across an alternative app for viewing Bonjour services on a local network?
I use a very nice little program from the App Store, called iNet. It scans your local network and also has a Bonjour browser. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/inet-network-scanner/id403304796?mt=12
 


Since the Bonjour feature of Safari was removed a few updates ago, I have gone back to using Bonjour Browser version 1.5.6, which is a 32-bit app. I emailed the developer to ask about the possibility of releasing a 64-bit compatible update. He said the code is so old that it needs a rewrite, which he's working on, but he can't promise a release date as he has very little spare time. Has anyone come across an alternative app for viewing Bonjour services on a local network?
I use a very nice little program from the App Store, called iNet. It scans your local network and also has a Bonjour browser. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/inet-network-scanner/id403304796?mt=12
That one seemed a little pricey so I purchased mDNSBrowser. It appears to list all the same information as Bonjour Browser albeit in a different format. It is a 64-bit app. However, you can't initiate a connection, like file or screen sharing, like you can from Bonjour Browser. As a nice plus, you can also download a program (a preference pane) from the developer's site, handyPrint, that lets you print to shared printers from an iOS device. Handy indeed.
 


That one seemed a little pricey so I purchased mDNSBrowser. As a nice plus, you can also download a program (a preference pane) from the developer's site, handyPrint, that lets you print to shared printers from an iOS device. Handy indeed.
mDNSBrowser is a good find, thanks. And I can vouch for handyPrint. I've been running that for the past few years at home. Does exactly what it says, and hasn't caused any problems for me.
 


It's been announced that MacOS 10.14 will run only 64-bit applications.
For the previous discussion, see: MacInTouch here.
Good article with a list of identified 32-bit apps, see: here.

My question:
How do we obtain an installer for MacOS 10.13 now?
(We previously did something similar, obtaining El Capitan (10.11) installers.)

My reasons for asking:
1. I want to continue running Adobe CS6.
2. I am running MacOS 10.7 until I can execute a project to backup an old grey & white Mac as a favor to a deceased friend's family. I do want to access the discs in target mode from my semi-modern (10.7) Mac without converting the discs to Core Storage that would render it unbootable.
Jim, as an alternative, you might want to set up VMWare Fusion or Parallels on a newer machine and run the 10.7 OS as a VM under a more modern OS. You might just be able to P2V [convert the physical machine to a virtual machine].
 
Last edited by a moderator:


I have gone back to using Bonjour Browser version 1.5.6, which is a 32-bit app. I emailed the developer to ask about the possibility of releasing a 64-bit compatible update.
And just like that, a new version of Bonjour Browser is available in the App Store!

Bonjour Browser developer Kevin Ballard said:
You recently contacted me about Bonjour Browser being an old 32-bit app. I’m happy to say that as of a few minutes ago, Bonjour Browser 2.0, a complete rewrite, is now available on the Mac App Store. Due to Apple owning the trademark on the name Bonjour I had to rename it, so it’s now called Discovery - DNS-SD Browser, which matches the name of the iOS app.
 


I downloaded, installed and ran it. Works like a charm! Thanks to Kevin Ballard for updating this useful app.

Now I have to learn what some of the connections mean :)
 


Since the Bonjour feature of Safari was removed a few updates ago, I have gone back to using Bonjour Browser version 1.5.6, which is a 32-bit app. I emailed the developer to ask about the possibility of releasing a 64-bit compatible update. He said the code is so old that it needs a rewrite, which he's working on, but he can't promise a release date as he has very little spare time. Has anyone come across an alternative app for viewing Bonjour services on a local network?
Bonjour Browser 1.2 is 64-bit. Is this not sufficient?
 




I use several Garmin applications for my Garmin devices. Their current Mac software is still 32 bit. When asked on the Garmin forums if/when will update to 64 bit, they punted.
Another Garmin/Apple anecdote: I have a lovely, if ancient, Garmin GPSmap 296; possibly the best small-form aviation portable GPS ever made. Recently, I updated to Sierra from Mavericks, and the USB connectivity to the unit, functional back to at least Snow Leopard, no longer worked with Garmin's software ("BaseCamp, etc.). This made me mildly rabid. I asked Garmin about it and here's the reply:
Thank you for contacting Garmin International. This won't work on a Mac computer running OS higher than 10.00 (El Capitan). Apple stopped supporting Serial Based to USB Devices, as of OS 10.00. You will need to use an older computer or a Windows with USB 2.0. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Don't know who I'm more annoyed with, Apple or Garmin. Seems like a simple USB serial-to-USB driver for these devices is not too much to ask.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
... Seems like a simple USB serial-to-USB driver for these devices is not too much to ask.
I'm controlling a device over a USB-serial connection using macOS 10.12 Sierra and a 2011 MacBook Pro's USB 2 port. I didn't have to install any drivers.
 


I'm controlling a device over a USB-serial connection using macOS 10.12 Sierra and a 2011 MacBook Pro's USB 2 port. I didn't have to install any drivers.
Thanks Ric,

I should have said I am using a 2011 iMac with its built-in USB2 ports; everything works fine under Mavericks on that system, but not under 10.12.6. Is your "device" a Garmin product?
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
I should have said I am using a 2011 iMac with its built-in USB2 ports; everything works fine under Mavericks on that system, but not under 10.12.6. Is your "device" a Garmin product?
No, not a Garmin, and I think the controller chip is from FTDI, which may be the difference.
 


No, not a Garmin, and I think the controller chip is from FTDI, which may be the difference.
I am using a product from Sabrent:
Sabrent USB 2.0 to Serial (9-Pin) DB-9 RS-232 Adapter Cable 6ft Cable [FTDI Chipset] (CB-FTDI)
that has an FTDI chip inside the serial connector.

I connected a 2011 MacBook Pro to a 2014 MacBook Pro (with null modem). Either computer will be controlling a lighting console gateway from ETC; either will work. Both computers running stock macOS 10.12.6, no extra drivers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:


I have a lovely, if ancient, Garmin GPSmap 296. Recently, I updated to Sierra from Mavericks, and the USB connectivity to the unit, functional back to at least Snow Leopard, no longer worked with Garmin's software.
This was hinted at in several posts, but to make the point directly, since it looks like the GPSmap 296 has a real serial port as well as USB, you might want to try connecting via serial using an external USB-to-serial adapter, since several of these work with the built-in drivers included with macOS.
 


Here is an interesting article about compatibility tweaks Apple applies to apps it considers important to the macOS platform. I found it interesting that Apple finds it important that, for example, 1Password, should run smoothly on, and be compatible with, newer versions of macOS, and applies a tweak to make it so:
zhuowei said:
These 299 macOS apps are so buggy, Apple had to fix them in AppKit
What do Photoshop, Matlab, Panic Transmit, and Eclipse have in common? They are among the 299 apps for which macOS applies compatibillity fixes.
 



I remember reading years ago that Classic Mac OS was held back by Apple putting in lots of backward compatibility. Apple had to do backflips to ensure that MS Office would run in each version.

This is an improvement that Apple modifies the development system but not the OS itself.
 


I have a lot of vintage software that is 32-bit. In fact there are 184 listed in the 32-bit check.

What I want to know and understand is if I upgrade to the next version of macOS that is 64-bit-only, can I boot from an external disk that is 32-bit friendly to run those applications when necessary?
 


As I understand it, if Apple does not modify the APIs associated with your 32-bit app, then it will run. If at some time in the future Apple modifies those APIs, your 32-bit app may or may not function as it normally does.

In my own case I had been periodically buying a newer version of Toast, with the latest version being Toast 15, and not bothering to check if its CD/DVD burning capabilities had been updated. Silly me has spent a considerable sum supporting Roxio when I could just as well have put the money in the bank and continued using Toast 10! Could well have just used Apple's built in burning features, but I liked the GUI.
 


As I understand it, if Apple does not modify the APIs associated with your 32-bit app, then it will run. If at some time in the future Apple modifies those APIs, your 32-bit app may or may not function as it normally does. In my own case I had been periodically buying a newer version of Toast, with the latest version being Toast 15, and not bothering to check if its CD/DVD burning capabilities had been updated. Silly me has spent a considerable sum supporting Roxio when I could just as well have put the money in the bank and continued using Toast 10! Could well have just used Apple's built in burning features, but I liked the GUI.
What I meant was, will the hardware on my iMac allow me to boot into macOS 10.13.4 on an external drive, or is there something in the hardware or firmware that will prevent it? I am assuming the API's are in the new OS and would not be changed on the external drive still running macOS 10.13.4.
 


...if I upgrade to the next version of macOS that is 64-bit-only, can I boot from an external disk that is 32-bit friendly to run those applications when necessary?
A lot of unknown factors here (which Mac, which OS version on that Mac, which external drive etc.) make an accurate determination difficult. All of those factors will need to support an external boot of a (presumably) prior macOS version. Plus, Apple's macOS 10.13.4 High Sierra SDK Release Notes (Howard Oakley's site also has a nice description) demonstrate how Apple can stop 32-bit apps in NVRAM, which, though surmountable, is yet another obstacle.
 


A lot of unknown factors here (which Mac, which OS version on that Mac, which external drive etc.) make an accurate determination difficult. All of those factors will need to support an external boot of a (presumably) prior macOS version. Plus, Apple's macOS 10.13.4 High Sierra SDK Release Notes (Howard Oakley's site also has a nice description) demonstrate how Apple can stop 32-bit apps in NVRAM, which, though surmountable, is yet another obstacle.
I completely agree with everything posted above, but I don't see evidence that Apple intends to stop 32-bit apps in NVRAM for normal users. Apple's statement on 32-bit apps is that macOS 10.13 is the last to run them "without compromise", which says to me that MikeRose's approach is reasonable. I don't see any reason that he won't be able to maintain a bootable drive with the last version of macOS 10.13 High Sierra to continue to run 32-bit apps "without compromise".
 


I completely agree with everything posted above, but I don't see evidence that Apple intends to stop 32-bit apps in NVRAM for normal users. Apple's statement on 32-bit apps is that macOS 10.13 is the last to run them "without compromise", which says to me that MikeRose's approach is reasonable. I don't see any reason that he won't be able to maintain a bootable drive with the last version of macOS 10.13 High Sierra to continue to run 32-bit apps "without compromise".
Agreed. Some of the salient points are:
  • As long as the Mac hardware supports booting the older OS version (including macOS 10.13), he can boot into that to keep running his 32-bit apps on an internal or external hard disk/storage device.*
  • As long as the Mac hardware supports booting the newer OS version, he can boot into that to run the latest OS and apps on an internal or external hard disk/storage device.*
  • He can also potentially run the newer OS as the primary OS and virtualise the older OS as a virtual machine, using Parallels/Fusion/VirtualBox.**
* Installing macOS 10.13 onwards can do weird things, e.g. converting SSD disk format to APFS, and I've also had major problems updating macOS 10.13 on older hardware.

** Parallels/Fusion/OS X 10.7/10.8 are not free. Mac OS X 10.6 requires the Server version of the OS to virtualise. Some apps may not run (very well) in a virtual machine, e.g. those that require hardware video acceleration.
 


When checking my Mac for 32 bit apps, I noticed that my monitor calibration software, a seven year old version of DataColor's Spyder was 32-bit. Having received a discount offer from DataColor to update to their newest product Spyder5, I was going to move to their current offering, but could find no indication on their website that Spyder5 was a 64-bit application, so I inquired of support and received the following poorly translated, canned reply.

My question was simply: is Spyder5 a 64-bit application? I said nothing about receiving a warning message from my current app. I can appreciate that DataColor is not thrilled about having to recode their application, but I consider their response to be off-putting and not professional.

DataColor said:
thank you very much for your message and your faith in Datacolor products.

You have received the message '"Spyder " is not optimized for your Mac'.

You will receive this message once when starting a 32-bit application.
The software works on macOS High Sierra as before.
Apple has announced that future OS will not support 32-bit apps any more.
But the decision if the High Sierra successor macOS 10.14 (expected to be released in Autumn 2018) or macOS 10.15 (expected to be released in Autumn 2019) or a later version (e.g. in 2020) stop 32-bit app support has not been taken yet.

So we are talking about a demand on 6, 18 or 30 month from now.

Please also note that small applications (memory-wise) like the Spyder software will not benefit from being at 64-bit program. They may be less performant because of the larger memory address allocation.
Datacolor is aware of the situation, but please understand that we can not make any commitment about a decision that may be needed in up to 30 month from now.

Thank you for your understanding.

Feel free and don't hesitate to contact us again, in case you have further questions.
 


When checking my Mac for 32 bit apps, I noticed that my monitor calibration software, a seven year old version of DataColor's Spyder was 32-bit... My question was simply: is Spyder5 a 64-bit application?
Before upgrading your Spyder, you might want to take a look at this recently posted article about calibrating a Mac. They discuss several other vendors and software packages that might be a better choice.
 


The announcement of macOS 10.14 brings a list of hardware that will no longer be supported moving forward. In my case (and Ric's I believe), I have an early 2011 MacBook Pro with a replacement SSD that runs wonderfully. This is my wife's computer and it will ultimately get replaced with another Apple laptop, since I don't want to teach her Linux :-) but in the meantime, what are people considering to extend the usefulness of their current hardware? Also please list any pointers to hacks for running macOS 10.14 and beyond on unsupported hardware. Thanks!
 


EFB

I have already applied the hack to move my 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 to be identified as a 2010 5,1 Mac Pro. It appears that if I spend about $500 for a flashed Nvdia GPU or can find a reasonable AMD card—either of which should be Metal-capable—that I should be able to run 10.14.

I wrote to one of the Nvidia flashing folks and got an answer that I would just have to look and find a Metal-capable GPU on their site—a lot of the less expensive ones seem to be sold out. (They do offer a flashing service for non-purchased Nvidia.)

Does anyone have any comments or ideas on this?
 


The announcement of macOS 10.14 brings a list of hardware that will no longer be supported moving forward. In my case (and Ric's I believe), I have an early 2011 MacBook Pro with a replacement SSD that runs wonderfully. This is my wife's computer and it will ultimately get replaced with another Apple laptop, since I don't want to teach her Linux :-) but in the meantime, what are people considering to extend the usefulness of their current hardware? Also please list any pointers to hacks for running macOS 10.14 and beyond on unsupported hardware. Thanks!
A forum member with the name of Dosdude1 in MacRumors has started a thread about trying to get Mojave 10.14 to work on unsupported Macs. He created a thread in MacRumors about the process. Here is the link:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-10-14-mojave-on-unsupported-macs-thread.2121473/

Hope this will help you.
 


I'm running the latest version of High Sierra and its accompanying version of Safari (11.1.1). If I install Safari Technology Preview, will there be any conflicts with also running the "regular" version of Safari.
 


I have already applied the hack to move my 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 to be identified as a 2010 5,1 Mac Pro. It appears that if I spend about $500 for a flashed Nvdia GPU or can find a reasonable AMD card—either of which should be Metal-capable—that I should be able to run 10.14.
I also have a Mac Pro 2009 4,1 firmware updated to identify as a 2019 5,1. I just purchased off eBay a Metal-capable MSI Nvidia GTX960 with 2GB RAM, three DisplayPorts, one HDMI and one DVI-D port for $140, shipping included. Works like a charm. I could have MacVidCards flash it for Mac for an additional $90, but don't see the need for it yet. Definitely not necessary to spend $500.
 


I'm running the latest version of High Sierra and its accompanying version of Safari (11.1.1). If I install Safari Technology Preview, will there be any conflicts with also running the "regular" version of Safari.
Hi Ladd. There is no problem running Safari Technology Preview (STP) along with regular Safari. You can import your bookmarks from regular Safari into STP. STP runs in its own sandbox that doesn't affect regular Safari. I've been running STP for the last few years. Enjoy.
 




Amazon disclaimer:
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

Latest posts