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Ric Ford

MacInTouch
If you don't want to pay the $4+ per user per month that most of the commercial cloud email platforms charge, an often overlooked option is the email service commonly bundled with web hosting plans. For example, a lot of hosting companies include unlimited POP/IMAP/Webmail email accounts as part of their ~$5/month hosting plans. If I recall correctly, most plans also include CardDAV/CalDAV contact and calendar services. They're perhaps not quite as reliable as Microsft/Google/FastMail, and their functions are fairly basic, but especially for small organizations with simple needs, they may be adequate.

The bottom line, however, is that in the vast majority of business cases, a solution like Microsoft, Google, or FastMail is the easiest, most full-featured approach.
That's a good point about email services from hosting providers, which reminds me that Rackspace also offers email services.

Meanwhile, ProtonMail offers email services with special security features.
 


Of course, current versions of macOS still include open source mail tools, even if the Server app no longer includes a graphical front end to those tools.
This is no longer true. Starting with macOS 10.14, the base OS does not include open source email tools (amongst many other services) - see this Apple chart for the specific list of what is and isn't included anymore:
Apple Support said:
 


This is no longer true. Starting with macOS 10.14, the base OS does not include open source email tools (amongst many other services) - see this Apple chart for the specific list of what is and isn't included anymore:
This statement seems at odds with the existence of MailServe for Mojave, a third-party configurator for the mail software included with macOS.

Perhaps the referenced Apple Support document, Prepare for changes to macOS Server 5.7.1 is trying to say, "no GUI configurator for mail in Server 5.7.1," not "no email software in OS 10.14 and beyond."

Nevertheless, this does seem to be writing on the wall that says in effect, "Don't count on macOS to serve email."
 


This is no longer true. Starting with macOS 10.14, the base OS does not include open source email tools (amongst many other services) - see this Apple chart for the specific list of what is and isn't included anymore:
Thanks for the correction! I hadn't noticed that the Server changes went deeper than simply removing the configuration app, which is what Apple did for some functions in previous versions of the Server product.

In my earlier post, I forgot to mention that if you want to install your own version of Dovecot and Postfix on a Mac, you can use the ports found in the Homebrew or MacPorts collections.

This statement seems at odds with the existence of MailServe for Mojave, a third-party configurator for the mail software included with macOS.
I haven't used MailServe myself, but it looks like MailServe is more than just a configurator. It apparently installs an independent implementation of Dovecot and Postfix in a different location from where OS X used to have it.
 


This statement seems at odds with the existence of MailServe for Mojave, a third-party configurator for the mail software included with macOS.
I haven't used MailServe myself, but it looks like MailServe is more than just a configurator. It apparently installs an independent implementation of Dovecot and Postfix in a different location from where OS X used to have it.
Split the difference. Mojave includes a fairly recent version of Postfix, but no Dovecot binary (non-server macOS hasn't included Dovecot for a very long time, if ever). Mailserve adds its own config files for the Mojave Postfix (leaving the originals unchanged), and includes a Dovecot binary, among other useful things.

I haven't used MailServe in ages, since 10.5 or so. But it worked very well at the time, and I'm actually quite pleased to discover from these postings that it still exists!
 


We're still trying to find a decent alternative to running mail on MacOS. I contacted the folks at Topicdesk.com - who produced the fantastic Roundcube installer for MacOS - to see if they were planning anything extra. It seems not, but they are offering migration to a couple of different options (Kerios, iRedMail). They also mentioned FastMail as a hosted option.

We moved to a hosted Siteground account about 10 months ago, but it's been a constant struggle of reliability. We're now seriously considering a move to Office 365 hosting - it's more expensive than Siteground, but given the importance of email to our company, I think the added expense is justified. I just have more faith they'll make it work - something I never thought I'd say about Microsoft.

Having said all that. we have a backup mail server running on a Synology, and it has been solid - but its licensing is a bit expensive.
 


Split the difference. Mojave includes a fairly recent version of Postfix, but no Dovecot binary (non-server macOS hasn't included Dovecot for a very long time, if ever). Mailserve adds its own config files for the Mojave Postfix (leaving the originals unchanged), and includes a Dovecot binary, among other useful things. I haven't used MailServe in ages, since 10.5 or so. But it worked very well at the time, and I'm actually quite pleased to discover from these postings that it still exists!
Weeeellllll let's see. Interestingly, on the day Mojave was released, Apple also released macOS Server 5.6.3 - its description said compatible with macOS 10.13 and macOS 10.14 and it also stated that "new" installations of the Server software would only have the basic feature set (i.e. all the good stuff removed), but an "upgrade" installation of the server over a previous version of Server would still have the original features. Version 5.6.3 was quickly replaced with 5.7.1 a few days later that is only compatible with macOS 10.14 and has the very limited feature set - this is what's on the App Store now.

However, this would indicate that you can, in fact, run a full macOS Server on 10.14 - as long as it's an upgrade installation with Server 5.6.3 - and this would also mean that the underlying server software is actually included in macOS 10.14 Mojave (contrary to Apple's tech note we've been talking about here).

Now that I have been forced to run macOS 10.13 High Sierra and Server 5.6.3 on one of my primary servers, I can make a clone of that server and test upgrading it to macOS 10.14 but still with Server 5.6.3 and see if it works - I will report back once I've had a chance to do this - it may be a little while, as I'm still hyperventilating from the previous upgrade experience!
 


We moved to a hosted Siteground account about 10 months ago, but it's been a constant struggle of reliability. We're now seriously considering a move to Office 365 hosting - it's more expensive than Siteground, but given the importance of email to our company, I think the added expense is justified. I just have more faith they'll make it work - something I never thought I'd say about Microsoft.
I've been running email as well as my web site on Siteground for over a year and a half and have not noted significant email reliability problems other than false positives from spam filtering. Apache Spam Assassin was their standard service when I started, but they shifted me to Spam Experts after I complained earlier this year. Spam Experts is a much more cumbersome service to use, and initially its false positive rate was several percent. That improved dramatically at the end of the summer, but I still worry about planned changes that seem to eliminate the whitelisting option.

Spam filtering preferences can be tricky because many businesses want new customers for their products but most individuals don't want sales pitches.
 



A few weeks ago I decided it was long past time to set a stronger password on my wife's AOL account, which she uses for email. (Very) long story short, I can no longer get her email on her Mac, iPad, or iPhone. Whenever I try to connect to AOL, it tells me 'unable to verify account name and password.' The message seems to indicate a connection failure rather than a validation failure. She has no trouble logging in to aol.com using a web browser.

I did some searching and apparently this is a known problem that has occurred since AOL was merged into Oath. However, no one seems to have a solution that has worked for us. Anyone have any experience or ideas?

Thanks in advance.
 


A few weeks ago I decided it was long past time to set a stronger password on my wife's AOL account, which she uses for email. (Very) long story short, I can no longer get her email on her Mac, iPad, or iPhone. Whenever I try to connect to AOL, it tells me 'unable to verify account name and password.' The message seems to indicate a connection failure rather than a validation failure. She has no trouble logging in to aol.com using a web browser.

I did some searching and apparently this is a known problem that has occurred since AOL was merged into Oath. However, no one seems to have a solution that has worked for us. Anyone have any experience or ideas?

Thanks in advance.
Larry, I am not sure if your issue is exactly the same as the one I faced in the past, but you might try the following:
  • Go to Account Info and login
  • Select the Account Security tab on the left
  • Look for Allow apps that use less secure sign in and turn that on
While I primarily use the web interface for my various email accounts, I do like to go in from time to time to archive what I have up there. For my Verizon/AOL accounts, I need to have the above set before it will allow any POP3 connections from an email client.
 


Google is sending out email pushing Gmail users to "Turn off less secure access." When I checked what they mean, I find that the "insecure" app that "may have access to sensitive information" is OS X, and that Google is trying to get Gmail users to stop using the Apple Mail client for Gmail. I've noted this before but will pass the warning on, because the message does not explicitly identify OS X as insecure.
 


Google is sending out email pushing Gmail users to "Turn off less secure access." When I checked what they mean, I find that the "insecure" app that "may have access to sensitive information" is OS X, and that Google is trying to get Gmail users to stop using the Apple Mail client for Gmail. I've noted this before but will pass the warning on, because the message does not explicitly identify OS X as insecure.
I have a Gmail account and use the Apple Mac and iOS mail clients. I haven't received the email. (I only have the Gmail account just for YouTube commentary. The less they know of me, the better I feel.)
 


Google is sending out email pushing Gmail users to "Turn off less secure access." When I checked what they mean, I find that the "insecure" app that "may have access to sensitive information" is OS X, and that Google is trying to get Gmail users to stop using the Apple Mail client for Gmail. I've noted this before but will pass the warning on, because the message does not explicitly identify OS X as insecure.
Just today received this email from Google. I use an older 2009 iMac as my main Mac, running El Capitan 10.11.6, on which I archive my documents. And I do use Apple Mail.app for Gmail
 


Google is sending out email pushing Gmail users to "Turn off less secure access." When I checked what they mean, I find that the "insecure" app that "may have access to sensitive information" is OS X, and that Google is trying to get Gmail users to stop using the Apple Mail client for Gmail. I've noted this before but will pass the warning on, because the message does not explicitly identify OS X as insecure.
As I understand it, Google's definition of a "secure access" protocol is one that uses OAuth 2.0. For example, Mozilla Thunderbird uses OAuth 2.0 in order to generate the second-factor popup window (where you type in the code from a text message or Google Authenticator) when logging on to a Google server.

As far as I know, Apple Mail doesn't support OAuth 2.0, so it is considered "less secure access" - it must rely on a password alone. So you have to configure your account for "less secure access" (to support password-only authentication) and then generate an app-specific password for it.
 


Larry, I am not sure if your issue is exactly the same as the one I faced in the past, but you might try the following:
  • Go to Account Info and login
  • Select the Account Security tab on the left
  • Look for Allow apps that use less secure sign in and turn that on
While I primarily use the web interface for my various email accounts, I do like to go in from time to time to archive what I have up there. For my Verizon/AOL accounts, I need to have the above set before it will allow any POP3 connections from an email client.
Thank you! That worked for iOS on both devices but not for macOS. On her iPad (but strangely not on the iPhone), I had to delete the AOL account and then re-add it. I will try that on macOS, but iOS is where she really wants the access.
 


Thank you! That worked for iOS on both devices but not for macOS. On her iPad (but strangely not on the iPhone), I had to delete the AOL account and then re-add it. I will try that on macOS, but iOS is where she really wants the access.
Try this one to see if it helps getting things to work under macOS:
  • Go to myaccount.aol.com
  • Click on My Profile
  • Then click on Change Password which will re-direct you to a new page
  • You should be taken to the Account Security section
  • Scroll down to the bottom of the page and make sure that Allow apps that use less secure sign in is turned on.
Not sure why this is accessible in two different manners.
 


Try this one to see if it helps getting things to work under macOS:
  • Go to myaccount.aol.com
  • Click on My Profile
  • Then click on Change Password which will re-direct you to a new page
  • You should be taken to the Account Security section
  • Scroll down to the bottom of the page and make sure that Allow apps that use less secure sign in is turned on.
Not sure why this is accessible in two different manners.
I could not find this second security setting. When I went to myaccount.aol.com it just forwarded me to login.aol.com and I reached the setting that I had already changed.

However, I did delete the AOL account from the Mac in System Preferences/Internet Accounts and then added it back, and after that I was able to connect.

Again, thanks very much for your help.
 



I have been a MailHub user for years. I recently upgraded to Mojave and it broke MailHub. There is a Mojave beta version, but it is buggy. Unfortunately the developer has pretty much gone dark for quite a while now. No response to forum posts or to direct email support requests. Does anybody have a suggestion as to a replacement plug-in for MailHub?
 


You might try MailButler. It does not look like it does as much as MailHub, but it appears to be supported. I have not used MailButler but have read a couple of good reviews for it.
 


I have mixed feelings about MailButler. There was an online offer a couple of years ago for professional-level lifetime licenses at $30 each, so I bought a whole bunch for our company. Why? Because MailButler, at that point offered several very nice and unique features:

- Avatar icons obtained from a wide variety of sources (Gravatar, Google+, Flickr, websites.) With "Show Contact Photos in Message List" enabled in Apple Mail, the vast majority of messages were clearly identified with avatars.​
- Upload to Cloud for large attachments. This has been wonderful. Employees here often need to send large attachments, and it is more professional to include them directly in an email vs. using a service like wetransfer.com. MailButler could be configured to identify a user-defined attachment size and it would automatically compress the file(s), upload them to a user-defined service like Google Drive or Dropbox, and place a download link URL in the body of the email.​
- Templates for frequently-used messages. Pretty much like mail merge, only easier.​
- Delayed sending. You can choose when to send off a message.​
- Tracking of when messages are opened. Not failsafe, but very useful. And MailButler created smart mailboxes of messages that had been read vs. yet to be opened.​
- Reminders and Notes within Apple Mail about things to do / tasks to keep on track of.​
- Advanced signature creation.​
- Inbox pause and email snoozing, when you need to focus and not be bothered.​
- And, very awesomely, direct access in a new message windows to giphy.com for extremely easy search for and quick insertion of animated GIFs.​
MailButler had a dedicated preference pane with Mail's preferences. But they re-wrote the entire program last year, and now the end user must go to a web page to configure preferences and settings. These prefs and settings are nowhere near as nicely laid out.

Other features now removed or deprecated from the current version of MailButler include:
x Avatar icons are pretty much gone / a waste of time.​
x Smart mailboxes of tracked read / unread messages are gone.​
x Users can no longer choose the minimum attachment size for uploading, nor choose whether the link URL is at the top or the bottom of the sent message.​
x Animated GIF searching and insertion is gone.​
So, we will begrudgingly continue to use MailButler but are saddened by the loss of features and increased difficulty in configuration. The MailButler developer has ceased support for the old version and continually badgers users of the old version with pop-ups to upgrade to the new release.

Unless there's another lifetime license deal or a serious drop in subscription pricing, I would hesitate to recommend MailButler at this point.

As a final question, does anyone know of any way to easily insert animated GIFs in email messages? I would think this would be a hugely-desired feature for any modern email program.
 


I have been a MailHub user for years. I recently upgraded to Mojave and it broke MailHub. There is a Mojave beta version, but it is buggy. Unfortunately the developer has pretty much gone dark for quite a while now. No response to forum posts or to direct email support requests. Does anybody have a suggestion as to a replacement plug-in for MailHub?
I've used MailHub for years as well and upgraded to Mojave five days ago. I went to Dervish Software's web site and downloaded v.1.14.4, which is, apparently, a non-beta version. I installed it, and it appears to be working as well as ever. You might try checking the Dervish web site again. There's a big, red button that says "Mojave version".
 


I've used MailHub for years as well and upgraded to Mojave five days ago. I went to Dervish Software's web site and downloaded v.1.14.4, which is, apparently, a non-beta version. I installed it, and it appears to be working as well as ever. You might try checking the Dervish web site again. There's a big, red button that says "Mojave version".
I also have been using Mojave for the past month with MailHub v1.14.4. No issues with that combination. Works pretty well with my extensive set of folders and rules. I must say that MailHub is one of my must-haves, along with Default Folder, iStat Menus, BetterTouchTool, and Typinator or Keyboard Maestro.
 


I've used MailHub for years as well and upgraded to Mojave five days ago. I went to Dervish Software's web site and downloaded v.1.14.4, which is, apparently, a non-beta version. I installed it, and it appears to be working as well as ever. You might try checking the Dervish web site again. There's a big, red button that says "Mojave version".
I have already installed that version. (If you do a "Get Info" in the Finder, it actually, for some reason, says v1.2.) It has been buggy both on my MacBook Pro and on my Mini running Mojave. On the MacBook Pro, with one of my IMAP accounts, messages will suddenly disappear from the Messages pane and only reappear if I restart Mail. If I disable MailHub, then the problem is no longer there. On my Mini, if I select multiple messages in the Messages window, Mail will crash, albeit randomly. This problem has been reported on their support site but has gone unanswered.
 


I have already installed that version. (If you do a "Get Info" in the Finder, it actually, for some reason, says v1.2.) It has been buggy both on my MacBook Pro and on my Mini running Mojave. On the MacBook Pro, with one of my IMAP accounts, messages will suddenly disappear from the Messages pane and only reappear if I restart Mail. If I disable MailHub, then the problem is no longer there. On my Mini, if I select multiple messages in the Messages window, Mail will crash, albeit randomly. This problem has been reported on their support site but has gone unanswered.
I would suggest you try rebuilding your mailboxes in case there is some corruption there. A couple of years ago, I had disappearing messages, and a rebuild of the mailboxes solved the problem.

I do not have issues selecting multiple messages on IMAP and POP accounts with MailHub. I use MailHub all the time without issues in Mojave.
 


I would suggest you try rebuilding your mailboxes in case there is some corruption there. A couple of years ago, I had disappearing messages, and a rebuild of the mailboxes solved the problem.
I do not have issues selecting multiple messages on IMAP and POP accounts with MailHub. I use MailHub all the time without issues in Mojave.
Thank you for the suggestions. I have rebuilt my mailboxes with no improvement. As to the crashing when selecting multiple messages, this has been reported by several people on Dervish's support site (really just an unmoderated discussion board). The fact that it doesn't happen to everybody seems to indicate that there are other factors involved. Perhaps a conflict with other plug-ins?
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Now Apple is blocking notification emails from this forum:
I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
...
host mx5.mail.icloud.com[17.178.97.74] said: 550 5.7.1
[CS01] Message rejected due to local policy. Please visit
Postmaster information for iCloud Mail​
(in reply to end of DATA command)
...
Subject:
competition, technology, and Apple plans - New reply to watched thread
From:
MiT Community
Date:
1/22/19, 3:24 PM
To: ...
MiT Community
... replied to a thread you are watching at MiT Community.
competition, technology, and Apple plans
According to the Font of Infinite Wisdom and Knowledge ("FIWK", a.k.a. "internet"), the last entry in this page provides some hope:

Nvidia Drivers For macOS Mojave: Timeline Of Events - Latest Apple Mac Pro News & Tips

View this thread Watched threads

Please do not reply to this message. You must visit the forum to reply.

This message was sent to you because you opted to watch the thread competition, technology, and Apple plans at MiT Community with email notification of new replies. You will not receive any further emails about this thread until you have read the new messages.

If you no longer wish to receive these emails, you may disable emails from this thread or disable all emails.
Visit MiT Community
 


Now Apple is blocking notification emails from this forum:
I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
...
host mx5.mail.icloud.com[17.178.97.74] said: 550 5.7.1
[CS01] Message rejected due to local policy. Please visit
Postmaster information for iCloud Mail
As a poor sap that runs his own email from his own domain (and has yet to set up DKIM), I note this isn’t so unusual. The missing link, Postmaster information for iCloud Mail, explains further. (tl;dr: must bend over backward to prove or otherwise indicate you’re not a spammer.) “Those are the conditions that prevail!”
 


Now Apple is blocking notification emails from this forum...
This forum has email notifications? If so, Apple may not be the only one. I use FastMail, and I have yet to receive a single one. I have turned off their spam filtering as much as possible. Yesterday, I found the setting "Receive email when a new conversation message is received", which I enabled, but I didn't get any when a thread I posted in got a reply.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
This forum has email notifications? If so, Apple may not be the only one. I use FastMail, and I have yet to receive a single one. I have turned off their spam filtering as much as possible. Yesterday, I found the setting "Receive email when a new conversation message is received", which I enabled, but I didn't get any when a thread I posted in got a reply.
"Conversations" are a completely different and unsupported/unavailable mechanism within the forum software we're using (custom-configured for more security and privacy), but, while I can't really support email notifications, either (and I've had some problems with them), you can certainly try them out via account preferences, e.g.

▢ Automatically watch content you create…
▢ and receive email notifications
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Now Apple is blocking notification emails from this forum...
MacInTouch Community forum notification emails to Apple email addresses (mac.com, me.com, icloud.com) continue to be blocked, but I'm not having trouble with any other email providers (though I also have seen a notification message about malware be blocked as malware - duh).
 


This is very odd Ric. I'm still receiving email notifications from MacInTouch. I have the .mac address. If you need a .mac email tester, I'm here to help.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
This is very odd Ric. I'm still receiving email notifications from MacInTouch. I have the .mac address. If you need a .mac email tester, I'm here to help.
That is very odd, because I got errors about blocked emails to your mac.com address on 1/28, 1/22, 1/21, 1/19, 11/12/18, 11/10/18, 10/25/18, 10/24/18 and 10/23/18.

I'll email you those errors and you can cross-check against what you saw on your end.
 


MacInTouch Community forum notification emails to Apple email addresses (mac.com, me.com, icloud.com) continue to be blocked, but I'm not having trouble with any other email providers (though I also have seen a notification message about malware be blocked as malware - duh).
I am getting mails from here via an .icloud address.
 



And I don't see email errors with your email address. So... Apple's email blocking is changeable and random? Nice.
Sounds like they have several mail servers that aren't 100% in sync with each other. So messages either succeed or fail depending on which server happens to receive them.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
This is very odd Ric. I'm still receiving email notifications from MacInTouch. I have the .mac address. If you need a .mac email tester, I'm here to help.
That is very odd, because I got errors about blocked emails to your mac.com address on 1/28, 1/22, 1/21, 1/19, 11/12/18, 11/10/18, 10/25/18, 10/24/18 and 10/23/18. I'll email you those errors and you can cross-check against what you saw on your end.
I followed up with Richard, and we determined that he had not received the emails that triggered Apple blocking errors while receiving a bunch of virtually identical ones that Apple had not blocked. So, Apple email processing is a Russian roulette-like system.
 


I followed up with Richard, and we determined that he had not received the emails that triggered Apple blocking errors while receiving a bunch of virtually identical ones that Apple had not blocked. So, kind of like email Russian roulette....
I second that. Later today, going to inform Apple of their problem. I don't like my emails being censored.

Part of my reply email to Ric: "Referencing your bounce emails, I never did receive them. I also looked in my Junk and Trash folders, also not there. However I have been receiving other notification emails in the threads listed in your bounced email list."

Not a happy camper here.
 


I followed up with Richard, and we determined that he had not received the emails that triggered Apple blocking errors while receiving a bunch of virtually identical ones that Apple had not blocked. So, Apple email processing is a Russian roulette-like system.
It might be worthwhile to look at the Received: headers to see which Apple servers received each message (hopefully, Apple's bounce messages include the full headers of the bounced message). If we can see a pattern of which Apple servers accept the mail and which reject it, that's enough information to send to Apple for troubleshooting.

Of course, they may respond by adjusting the servers so they all block the mail, since we don't know what their policy is supposed to be.
 


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