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I wanted to reinstall the OS to see if it would fix an autofill problem. I found I could not boot into Recovery Mode; all that happened was I would end up back in the partition I started from. Option/restart didn't work either. I could boot into any partition/drive that was in SysPref, but Recovery Mode isn't represented there.
I tried a variety of things. I couldn't boot into Single User, Verbose, or Safe modes or into Apple Hardware test. That made me think of the keyboard.

I recently got the Matias Wired Backlit keyboard and have liked it a fair amount. Nice red-lit keys in the dark. Or green, or whatever you wanted. I had no problems till now. I plugged in one of my previous keyboards and then had no problem using the various key combinations to get done what I needed.

After reinstalling the OS (Sierra), I went back to the Matias keyboard. Same problem. So if you have problems like this, it may be the keyboard. I will not likely be getting another one. Ach, I liked the colors.
 
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I got the same keyboard a couple of months ago. I haven't had any need to boot into recovery mode, but I found it somewhat different to set up than what I remember as the norm. In the past, when I have plugged in a new third-party Mac keyboard, the setup dialog for "unrecognized" keyboards pops up. With the Matias, the setup pane mostly did not appear when I plugged in the board. In one or two cases, the setup screen did appear, but got stuck (endless grey spinner) after I did the first step, pressing the key next to the shift key on the left.

Eventually I figured out that I had to go into System Preferences/Keyboard and add the new keyboard there. In those cases, I just got the list of three keyboard types, chose the third option (US keyboard) and then the Matias keyboard was recognized. It is tedious doing this for every supported boot drive (I set it up on 8 or 9 drives on 3 computers). I haven't tried to see if it will be usable with my legacy Tiger and Leopard OS drives on my 2006 Mac Pro.

My next test will be to see if it is usable through my KVM, now that the various drives are set up to see the Matias. It is a pretty nice board, but I have some concerns about the finicky setup. If it doesn't work properly through the KVM, it will be of limited usefulness.
 
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Before I purchased my Matias Ergo Pro a few months ago, I noticed a review of the keyboard that stated the start up keys did not function. I wrote Matias an email inquiring about this and received the following reply:
Hello Scott,

I checked with our Chief Engineer, and it looks like the holding down keys during startup feature is something that will be added later this year, but is not in the current model.

Best Regards,
Steve McGowan
After reading the other posts, I'm guessing this may be the case for their whole Mac line.

BTW, I purchased the keyboard anyway and am glad I did! It is the best ergo keyboard I've used, and I've tried most of them. I haven't needed to use startup keys for months, but when I do, I have an Apple keyboard on hand that I can easily plug in. I'll buy another Ergo Pro for my office when the updated model is released.
 
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My brother-in-law, who is pretty tech-savvy, told me about an interesting problem that he is having with his wife's iMac running Safari.

The Apple keyboard died, so he replaced it with a new Apple wireless keyboard, which will not work unless he updates the OS to the current version of High Sierra! He called AppleCare and the tech there confirmed that the new Apple keyboard needs the current macOS to work!

I did not know that having a functioning keyboard was related to the OS on the computer!
 
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My brother-in-law, who is pretty tech-savvy, told me about an interesting problem that he is having with his wife's iMac running Safari.

The Apple keyboard died, so he replaced it with a new Apple wireless keyboard, which will not work unless he updates the OS to the current version of High Sierra! He called AppleCare and the tech there confirmed that the new Apple keyboard needs the current macOS to work!

I did not know that having a functioning keyboard was related to the OS on the computer!
The minimum OS for the new Apple keyboard is 10.11, El Capitan.
 


The minimum OS for the new Apple keyboard is 10.11, El Capitan.
Hi Ken. Thanks for the information.
How was he supposed to know this? In past iterations of the many Apple computers that both he and and I have had, the OS version had no impact on the keyboard, so what would have lead him to "know" that this was now important? Does a long-time user have to question everything that they know each time they make a purchase of some Apple item?
(Somewhat rhetorical questions.)
 


Apple sells you a new Apple keyboard that only works if you keep your system updated to the current version? Keyboard? Like the old typewriter? This ASCII thing that's been standardized since ≈1880? I'm not allowed in this family forum to use the proper words to express my disgust.

Odd thought: Do we suspect that within our lifetimes no one will know what a "typewriter" is/was? Never mind a teletype. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Once I was out there too far on the edge. Wrote my dissertation on one of the first 50K skinny Macs. (There went my student loan. Lots of Raman™ and cheap coffee.) I used a bootleg beta copy of Word (B .7.x?) Saved to 400K 3.5" "floppies. At least I had two copies.

Now? Please just work, got too much to do.
 


Apple sells you a new Apple keyboard that only works if you keep your system updated to the current version?
Well, it's not the current OS, but two versions old - OS X 10.11 as introduced on September 30, 2015 (just over two years and seven months ago). Still a pretty short interval.
Hi Ken. Thanks for the information.
How was he supposed to know this?
[I found it in] System Requirements in the product description: Magic Keyboard - US English
 
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for making my point for me. What this implies is that for any Apple accessory that one buys, in spite of one’s prior experience with the accessory, we now need to review the product description before purchasing? I think that this is a bit much. Past experience is no guarantee of future performance, as the financial info states. Sorry to see it also now being applicable to Apple's ecosystem.
 
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DFG

My brother-in-law, who is pretty tech-savvy, told me about an interesting problem that he is having with his wife's iMac running Safari.

The Apple keyboard died, so he replaced it with a new Apple wireless keyboard, which will not work unless he updates the OS to the current version of High Sierra! He called AppleCare and the tech there confirmed that the new Apple keyboard needs the current macOS to work!

I did not know that having a functioning keyboard was related to the OS on the computer!
Yet another reason why I prefer wired "dumb" USB keyboards (with numeric keypad, of course!).
 


One of my clients got caught with this after she had bought a new 'Magic' keyboard.

I went to see her, taking a trusty, 'ordinary' Mac keyboard, just to make sure that the Mac itself was ok. It was.

On a whim, I plugged the "Magic' keyboard into the Mac with its iPhone charging cable, and, lo, everything worked.

She's happily still using it over 2 months later and apparently not having any issues. Obviously something may happen down the line, but for now, she's perfectly happy.
 
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The minimum OS for the new Apple keyboard is 10.11, El Capitan.
Actually, I'm pretty sure one would need macOS 10.12 Sierra for the Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keyboard. El Capitan is necessary for the plain Magic Keyboard and the Magic Trackpad 2; apparently, they all require drivers that Apple won't retro-fit into operating systems older than Sierra. After a quick search, I can't find a third-party driver for older operating systems.
 



Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Well, it's not the current OS, but two versions old - OS X 10.11 as introduced on September 30, 2015 (just over two years and seven months ago). ... [I found it in] System Requirements in the product description: Magic Keyboard - US English
That product costs $100 and has mediocre reviews at best.

Apple's $129 Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (as noted above) requires macOS 10.12.4 or later, so it won't work with OS X 10.11.

I bought a Logitech Easy‑Switch K811 Wireless Bluetooth Keyboard last year (currently $74 at Amazon) and have been using it as my primary keyboard ever since. It feels just like a 2015 MacBook Pro keyboard and has backlighting and rechargable internal batteries.
Logitech said:
System Requirements
  • Mac OS® X 10.6 or later (Intel only)
  • iPad or iPhone with iOS 4.0 or later
 
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I stopped using Apple keyboards on my desktop 15-20 years ago when I wanted an ergonomic keyboard, and quickly learned that even wired keyboards could be incompatible with the version of the Mac OS.

I bought a Power Mac G5, plugged in an ergonomic keyboard with a shape and feel that I liked, installed the required driver software, and it seemed to work. But over several weeks the computer kept feeling slower and slower, and I finally discovered that the driver was constantly crashing and rebooting, and had built up gigabytes of crash log. I now forget the details, but the lesson was that keyboards are not simple, especially if you want anything special, because so much is done in software.

As a writer, keyboard ergonomics and feel are crucial, so I live with a bit of fiddling and a few trade-offs to use the wired Microsoft keyboard I find feels best.
 
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I bought a Power Mac G5, plugged in an ergonomic keyboard with a shape and feel that I liked, installed the required driver software, and it seemed to work. But over several weeks the computer kept feeling slower and slower, and I finally discovered that the driver was constantly crashing and rebooting, and had built up gigabytes of crash log. I now forget the details, but the lesson was that keyboards are not simple, especially if you want anything special, because so much is done in software.
I never install driver software for devices like keyboards and mice.

The USB spec (and Bluetooth, for that matter) has clear definitions for all the basic functionality and macOS has proper generic drivers. Any standards-compliant keyboard or mouse should just work without any driver software.

The software you get is probably only used to allow use of some kind of proprietary media keys or other non-standard features. If you don't use those keys/features, then the software is pretty much irrelevant. And it is often (although not always) the case that you can use the Keyboard preference panel to map functionality (e.g. Launchpad and Exposé) onto otherwise-unused keys (like various F-keys).

The driver software that comes with devices is usually garbage. Manufacturers throw it in so they can claim compatibility with operating systems, but they almost never update the software, so it becomes less and less useful as the rest of the OS evolves, and eventually becomes a cause of failures. If you need to use a feature that can't be used without software, consider using third-party software, and make a point of keeping it up to date just like you would any other software package.

For keyboard and mouse support, I have read good things about USB Overdrive, but I have no personal experience using it. On my Macs, I'm using Apple keyboards (which have built-in support for the media keys) and generic mice (two buttons and a wheel) which also have built-in support in macOS.
 


I never install driver software for devices like keyboards and mice.

The USB spec (and Bluetooth, for that matter) has clear definitions for all the basic functionality and macOS has proper generic drivers. Any standards-compliant keyboard or mouse should just work without any driver software.

The software you get is probably only used to allow use of some kind of proprietary media keys or other non-standard features. If you don't use those keys/features, then the software is pretty much irrelevant. And it is often (although not always) the case that you can use the Keyboard preference panel to map functionality (e.g. Launchpad and Exposé) onto otherwise-unused keys (like various F-keys).

The driver software that comes with devices is usually garbage. Manufacturers throw it in so they can claim compatibility with operating systems, but they almost never update the software, so it becomes less and less useful as the rest of the OS evolves, and eventually becomes a cause of failures. If you need to use a feature that can't be used without software, consider using third-party software, and make a point of keeping it up to date just like you would any other software package.

For keyboard and mouse support, I have read good things about USB Overdrive, but I have no personal experience using it. On my Macs, I'm using Apple keyboards (which have built-in support for the media keys) and generic mice (two buttons and a wheel) which also have built-in support in macOS.
I have found that USB Overdrive is good mouse driver and a good keyboard driver. I like having drivers that do more than one task and thus reduce the number of drivers being launched and potentially interfering with each other.
 


I did not know that having a functioning keyboard was related to the OS on the computer!
Similarly, the Magic Mouse 2 requires El Capitan. I bought one about a year ago but could not use it until I upgraded my operating system.
Does a long-time user have to question everything that they know each time they make a purchase of some Apple item?
Any user should check the system requirements before making a purchase of any item.
The driver software that comes with devices is usually garbage.
Hear, hear.

Contrary to many MacInTouchers, I have several Apple mice and keyboards and like them just fine. Call me a rebel!
 
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I emailed support at Matias about the keyboard combinations not working.
Got this:
In our original design of the Matias wired aluminum keyboards, we added a dial on the top edge of the keyboard. In the case of the Matias Backlit Wired Aluminum Keyboard for Mac, for example, we made it be a color control dial. This control dial added extra functionality including the feature of being active during the boot / startup sequence. All this extra functionality added to the firmware meant that we had to remove other functionality from the firmware, and we removed the feature of keys being active during the boot / startup sequence

We constantly tweak and improve our keyboards, and we’ve now updated our design of the Matias Backlit Wired Aluminum Keyboard for Mac to allow keys to be active during the boot / startup sequence of the Mac (but removing the feature of the color control dial being active during the boot / startup sequence), because on further reflection, more people will care about the keys being active during the boot sequence than the color control being active during the boot sequence.
I've replied asking how I can get that functionality on a three month old keyboard. Will let you know.
 


That product costs $100 and has mediocre reviews at best.

Apple's $129 Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (as noted above) requires macOS 10.12.4 or later, so it won't work with OS X 10.11.

I bought a Logitech Easy‑Switch K811 Wireless Bluetooth Keyboard last year (currently $74 at Amazon) and have been using it as my primary keyboard ever since. It feels just like a 2015 MacBook Pro keyboard and has backlighting and rechargable internal batteries.
I have the Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad with my iMac 2017 and find the keyboard a pleasure to use. Recharging has been infrequent and easy.
 



I am using a COO bluetooth keyboard from Amazon ($~25) on a 2010 Core 2 Duo Mac Mini, and it appears to be fully functional, except that the OS has to be booted for it to work. Have an old Apple USB keyboard for backup.
 



I stopped using Apple keyboards on my desktop 15-20 years ago when I wanted an ergonomic keyboard, and quickly learned that even wired keyboards could be incompatible with the version of the Mac OS.
I switched to Microsoft keyboards with the rubber membrane between the keycaps and the switches. When the keycaps get greasy and dirty or when liquid is spilled, I just remove the keyboard top with captive keycaps and wash it, along with the membrane, with dishwashing soap. Back together after rinse and dry, it’s just like new. Try washing your wonderful old Apple keyboard. That doesn't work very well.

Until 5 or 6 years ago, the Microsoft software was necessary -- now it won't work even if already installed in Sierra or High Sierra. Fortunately, the keyboard system preference handles swapping the Command and Option keys. Media and Function keys work without any extras.

It is interesting to note that many of us actually appreciate wired keyboard and pointing devices. There is already a clutter of monitor power and data cables, with USB ports on the monitor holding Lightning cables for iDevices. So the presence of wires to the keyboard and mouse is not a big deal. All these devices are tools for me to accomplish things and the reliability of the wired devices far exceeds that of wireless devices, both because of interference in the 2.4 GHz band from WiFi and USB 3 cables, and because the battery never dies (since there is none).

Regarding Alessandro Montalcini's USB Overdrive -- after some initial glitches that Apple claimed were Microsoft's fault, USB Overdrive installs and functions properly in both Sierra and High Sierra. I use it to set the function of buttons 3-5 on the Microsoft Comfort Mouse 4500 which fits my big hands. I carry a 4500 in my kit for use when visiting (anywhere).

And, of course, I would be lost without my Apple model A1314 wireless keyboards. I often use these when setting up iPhones and iPads, for relief from the new MacBook Pro keyboard, and as travelling support tools, including travelling between test systems in my office/lab.
 
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I've replied asking how I can get that functionality on a three month old (Matias) keyboard. Will let you know.
I bought a Matias Wired Aluminum keyboard – the non-backlit model – a couple of weeks ago. FWIW the boot key combinations work on it. However, I don't know if my keyboard has revised firmware or not... when I was first ready to buy, it was listed as out of stock in Matias' online store. Perhaps that was the period when the updated keyboards were being produced.
 



That product costs $100 and has mediocre reviews at best.

Apple's $129 Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (as noted above) requires macOS 10.12.4 or later, so it won't work with OS X 10.11.

I bought a Logitech Easy‑Switch K811 Wireless Bluetooth Keyboard last year (currently $74 at Amazon) and have been using it as my primary keyboard ever since. It feels just like a 2015 MacBook Pro keyboard and has backlighting and rechargable internal batteries.
This, again, is another reason this site and Ric's work is valuable, appreciated --- you discover or are pointed to some products (or solutions) you would not have discovered otherwise ... such as this Logitech wireless keyboard (mentioned above, link), which is now on my buy next list. Thanks, Ric.
 
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I emailed support at Matias about the keyboard combinations not working...
They have replied that they will swap it out with one that does have the functionality of keys being active during the boot / startup sequence, but it will need to wait until June, as it is out of stock.
 
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Just recently started playing around with High Sierra, and noticed in a beta of 10.13.6 that my keyboard - the original wired Extended Apple Keyboard, the first version with slightly different keys than what appeared in a slightly revised subsequent version - wasn't functional if I did a reboot, whereas I think it was functional with 10.13.5. And, sure enough, in the final 10.13.6 it was still that way, non-functional. And now with Mojave, more of the same.

So, essentially, cannot do anything with the keyboard when rebooting, including using option to select a different disk to boot from. Have to shut down and power up instead.

I thought I read something here about keyboard issues prior to my playing around with these versions of macOS, but of course my mental note wasn't handy at the time, and I couldn't locate it here when I looked.

Anyway, for the time being, I can still shut down and boot into Yosemite and reboot, and the keyboard is still functional, last time I paid attention. (I will try it again after I post this to make sure that's still true.)

Early 2009 Mac Pro updated to 5,1, using an apparently flashed AMD Radeon HD 7950, and installed on a spare SSD.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
...noticed in a beta of 10.13.6 that my keyboard - the original wired Extended Apple Keyboard, the first version with slightly different keys than what appeared in a slightly revised subsequent version - wasn't functional...
You aren't talking about the ancient ADB Apple keyboard, are you? (That would obviously require an adapter for use with USB.)
 


You aren't talking about the ancient ADB Apple keyboard, are you? (That would obviously require an adapter for use with USB.)
I was talking about USB (had that in there, but it seemed redundant). This was the original flat aluminum keyboard with the white flat keys and the essential-to-me numeric keyboard on the right-hand side. (Really love this keyboard.) There were two near-identical flavors of it that I know of. I have the first, which works great on my Mac Pro with mission control keys f13-f19; the second flavor (which had a few different icons on the F buttons), did not. (Although this was when it was a 4,1 Mac Pro, so ?).

So, anyway, I'm curious about which Apple keyboards with similar keys will work well with a 5,1 Mac Pro - in particular, still be active after doing a restart. Maybe even that second flavor.
 


A major difference between v1 and v2 of the discontinued wired aluminum keyboard is the Apple-specific functions assigned to the F-keys. When v1 came out, Widgets was still a big deal and consequently has a dedicated launch button. On v2 there's a Mission Control button instead.
 


A major difference between v1 and v2 of the discontinued wired aluminum keyboard is the Apple-specific functions assigned to the F-keys. When v1 came out, Widgets was still a big deal and consequently has a dedicated launch button. On v2 there's a Mission Control button instead.
So my questions about these two are: Does the v2 keyboard work properly with High Sierra 10.13.6 (and presumably Mojave), for anyone? One would imagine it would since it was available more recently, guessing how Apple thinks... And on top of that does it function well with the 2010 5,1 Mac Pros? (Or maybe it's just my setup, and v1 keyboard works for others with these particular OSes?)
 


I have been using a V2 Apple wired keyboard with no problems (other than fat fingers) with both High Sierra and Mojave. I have an iMac 5K 27", and I don't know about a 2010 5,1 Mac Pro - sorry.
 


Initially I had the V2 Apple wired keyboard issue; however, once I plugged directly into the 2015 iMac (not via my powered USB3 hub), all is now fine.
 


It dawned on me a while after reading your posts that perhaps I should try plugging the keyboard into the tower instead of into the monitor, so I will give that a shot tomorrow. It's something to try at least.

I also will try unplugging and replugging the keyboard once the reboot is finished - at least that might allow me to log in after a restart, should that happen to make a difference. (I would still be out of luck with any boot time keyboard activities however.)
 


Just recently started playing around with High Sierra, and noticed in a beta of 10.13.6 that my keyboard - the original wired Extended Apple Keyboard, the first version with slightly different keys than what appeared in a slightly revised subsequent version - wasn't functional if I did a reboot, whereas I think it was functional with 10.13.5. And, sure enough, in the final 10.13.6 it was still that way, non-functional. And now with Mojave, more of the same....
So... Installed 10.13.5, which I had handy, on to a fresh SSD, and the keyboard worked fine, no problemo, just like I remembered.

Updated to 10.13.6, keyboard not recognized; unplugged/replugged into back of the 30" Apple Cinema Display, no change; plugged keyboard into front of Mac Pro tower, success... more success when moved the USB cable for the monitor to the first rather than the third USB input on the back and plugged the keyboard back in to the monitor. Everything seemed fine. At this point, fresh install, no migratons, no adds, a few preferences set. Restarts seemed to result in keyboard being recognized each time.

Once Mojave beta 4 finished downloading, tried to install it on top of fresh 10.13.6 - result was same as before when I was installing over migrated-from-Yosemite 10.13.6:
MacOS could not be installed on your computer. The installer resources were not found. Quit the installer to restart your computer and try again."

Which didn't work, and now after that restart the keyboard was not being recognized either.

Might try and install Mojave beta 3 again before going back to the drawing board, since 4 doesn't seem viable. But enough of that for today.
 


Tried this time from scratch with a full macOS 10.13.6 installer. Still had the keyboard issue, but unplug/replug of the monitor (and thereby the keyboard) on the back of the tower took care of it for the most part.

And sadly I didn't actually have a full 10.14 beta 3 installer, just a stub, so had to settle with getting a full beta 4 and trying that again, with the same result in the end.

Only thing I haven't tried again yet is bypassing the Apple Cinema Display altogether with the keyboard directly hooked up to the Mac Pro to see if it stays recognized all of the time, since I still detected some flakiness otherwise. (Maybe better luck with beta 5, plus need to dig out a USB extender cable or two, and back to Yosemite yet again.)
 


Indeed plugging the Apple keyboard directly into the Mac Pro tower (via a USB extension cord), rather than into the Apple monitor, was sufficient to bypass the problems I was having with installing and using macOS 10.13.6 with my old keyboard (hooked up at the monitor). Keyboard was recognized all along and seemed to remain functional. So, not sure why Apple decided to more or less all of a sudden make it not work through one of its very own monitors, but there you go.

But it seems like the keyboard works pretty well with Mojave, after all, once I got the sound settings configured correctly to work with it. (Still need to bypass the monitor hookup.)
 


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