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Ric Ford

MacInTouch
By ‘doesn’t work’, I meant not 100% compatible with Apple’s SSD.
... The others are compatible with only High Sierra (and presumably later). OWC states this about their Aurora Pro X. I thought I read similar information about MCE and Transcend, but I can't find the source of that info. From what I’ve read, all of them must be removed and the Apple SSD reinstalled in order to install High Sierra, due to firmware updates....
As noted in the SSD topic, High Sierra and its firmware update are required for third-party NVMe support and compatibility with certain sector sizes.

One MCE upgrade [e.g. 1TBPCIESSD-2015] avoids NVMe (at the expense of maximum performance) and is billed as "100% compatible" with Retina MacBook Pros through 2015, complete with support for Trim, SMART and Boot Camp.
 


Just curious - what did the problems look like for you? My discrete graphics MacBook Pro 2015 has been having periodic problems with apps crashing during sleep, or the UI failing somehow to come back from having been asleep, requiring a hard restart. It seems like it's worse when the external display is plugged in (forcing the GPU to be used).
Same symptoms for me with my mid-2014 MacBook Pro (dGPU) plugged into an old 27" Thunderbolt display. I can't say it's worse with the external display plugged in, because it always is [bad].
 


As noted in the SSD topic, High Sierra and its firmware update are required for third-party NVMe support and compatibility with certain sector sizes. One MCE upgrade [e.g. 1TBPCIESSD-2015] avoids NVMe (at the expense of maximum performance) and is billed as "100% compatible" with Retina MacBook Pros through 2015, complete with support for Trim, SMART and Boot Camp.
That makes sense that NVMe drives require a firmware update before installation. However, that doesn't entirely explain the Aurora Pro X. The tech specs don't say whether it is NVMe or SATA (or more correctly AHCI). OWC specs it at 1352 MB/s read and 1066 MB/s write, compared to 1900 read, 1400 write I benchmarked in my 2015 MacBook Pro, Apple SATA/AHCI-based SSD. If it is NVMe, why is it so slow? If it is AHCI, why does the 10.13 firmware update fail?

I checked the specs on the MCE; they also leave unanswered questions. They state that it is 100% compatible, but further down it states compatibility with 'current and future OS versions'. This might mean it requires 10.13, and the firmware update will fail just like the Aurora Pro X. The specs don't say if it is AHCI or NVMe, only that it is PCIe. The performance specs are better than OWC, 1400 read, 1100 write (maybe they just rounded up?), but still far below what Apple claims for their NVMe drive in the 2016+ MacBook Pro, and below Apple's AHCI drive.

I checked the specs on the Transcend JetDrive, it looks like the JetDrive 85x is an x4-lane NVMe drive requiring 10.13 (but still slower than Apple's AHCI drive); the JetDrive 82x is x2-lane AHCI drive, about half the speed of Apple's drive, and requires 10.10, making it more compatible, but not an equivalent replacement.

Interestingly, Transcend's compatibility list says that the 82x won't work in a pre 2015 MacBook Pro, while the SSD guide says Apple's 2015 MacBook Pro SSD will. Transcend has a JetDrive 72x for the pre-2015, but its advertised speed is slower than even SATA 3 speeds. This makes me question the compatibility of their drives, too.

Call me a skeptic, but I have doubts that any of them are 100% equivalent replacements for an Apple SSD.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
That makes sense that NVMe drives require a firmware update before installation. However, that doesn't entirely explain the Aurora Pro X. The tech specs don't say whether it is NVMe or SATA (or more correctly AHCI). OWC specs it at 1352 MB/s read and 1066 MB/s write, compared to 1900 read, 1400 write I benchmarked in my 2015 MacBook Pro, Apple SATA/AHCI-based SSD. If it is NVMe, why is it so slow? If it is AHCI, why does the 10.13 firmware update fail?
I just tested a 2015 MacBook Pro 15" with 1TB Apple SSD SM1024G (AHCI x4 PCI) with FileVault enabled, running macOS 10.12 and Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. I see 1863 MB/s Read and 1078 MB/s Write. I'm curious why you're seeing higher Write speeds, while I'm getting Write speeds that are the same as what's listed for MCE's non-NVMe 1TB SSD (but I'm seeing somewhat higher Read speeds). From what I can tell, this MCE SSD should function the same as Apple's, unless I'm missing something, but maybe there are differences in the controller used, the driver or the memory.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Here's some more information about Apple and OWC SSDs:
AnandTech said:
OWC Introduces SSD Upgrade for MacBook Pro and MacBook Air PCIe SSDs
Apple's Retina MacBook Pro and all but the earliest MacBook Air models have relied solely on SSDs for internal storage, as Apple slimmed down the designs to the point that even a 1.8" hard drive was too bulky. Rather than adopt the mSATA or later M.2 form factor, Apple's SSDs have used custom form factors and pinouts. This has contributed to keeping the market for third-party upgrades very small. Only a few companies have produced SSDs in Apple-specific form factors, most notably Other World Computing (OWC) and Transcend. Transcend has generally used Silicon Motion controllers while OWC has used SandForce controllers, but until now their offerings have been limited to SATA-based SSDs.

Apple migrated their notebook SSDs to PCIe-based interfaces in 2013 and has been using drives supplied by Toshiba, SanDisk, and Samsung. OWC has finally devised a compatible replacement and released it as part of their Aura SSD product line. Like the Apple originals, the OWC Aura PCIe SSD uses the AHCI protocol; Apple so far only supports and uses NVMe on the Retina MacBook that doesn't have a removable SSD. The requirement to use AHCI instead of NVMe limited OWC's choices for SSD controller. While Apple is a big enough customer to convince Samsung to make the SM951 in a custom form factor, OWC is not. Marvell has shipped several AHCI-compatible PCIe SSD controllers, but their typical business model is to sell just the controller and leave it up to the customer to write their own firmware or license from a third party, either of which is a substantial up-front expense.

In order to keep costs under control, OWC has opted to not use a native PCIe SSD controller. Instead, the PCIe Aura SSD uses a Marvell 9230 SATA RAID controller and a pair of Silicon Motion SM2256 SATA SSD controllers. The Marvell 9230 has a PCIe 2.0 x2 host interface, so the PCIe Aura SSD has the potential to outperform SATA SSDs but won't be able to approach the peak transfer rates of the recent Samsung SM951-based Apple originals. The Silicon Motion SM2256 controllers mean the PCIe Aura SSD is almost certainly using TLC flash, which is less expensive but also performs worse and draws more power than MLC flash. The PCIe Aura SSD's RAID design unfortunately does not support passing through TRIM commands nor retrieving SMART information from the individual SSD controllers.
 


I just tested a 2015 MacBook Pro 15" with 1TB Apple SSD SM1024G (AHCI x4 PCI) with FileVault enabled, running macOS 10.12 and Blackmagic Disk Speed Test. I see 1863 MB/s Read and 1078 MB/s Write. I'm curious why you're seeing higher Write speeds, while I'm getting Write speeds that are the same as what's listed for MCE's non-NVMe 1TB SSD (but I'm seeing somewhat higher Read speeds). From what I can tell, this MCE SSD should function the same as Apple's, unless I'm missing something, but maybe there are differences in the controller used, the driver or the memory.
I don't have FileVault turned on, it is 1 TB, of which about 35% is available. I am also running 10.12. I just ran it again, got 1450 write and 1899 read.

Are you sure that MCE drive is non-NVMe? I only saw PCIe specified, but nothing about NVMe or AHCI. The reason I ask is the MCE performance numbers are suspiciously close to OWC's. I finally did find an article that states that the Aura Pro X is a NVMe drive.
 




Apple is still selling a 2015 MacBook Pro 15", which has Thunderbolt 2 ports and USB 3 ports. Presumably, that's what you found.
The big downside for anyone doing extensive photo work on that machine is that it uses Intel's Iris graphics over a dedicated video card. I would have bought one last year if Apple had made the dedicated GPU a BTO option, but alas...
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
The big downside for anyone doing extensive photo work on that machine is that it uses Intel's Iris graphics over a dedicated video card. I would have bought one last year if Apple had made the dedicated GPU a BTO option, but alas...
Yeah, I didn't think it would affect me that much, as I haven't been doing much photo work (nor video), but I was surprised and disappointed at how the fans ramped up in Affinity Photo doing simple things. I don't think the Iris Pro is even all that bad in the grand scheme of things, though it can't keep up with a discrete GPU. But I haven't really done enough photo work to have a good handle on what I'm dealing with hardware-wise.

A neighbor bought an inexpensive Dell gaming laptop, and it's doing just fine for video editing with its dedicated GPU. It's a lot larger than the MacBook Pro, but I think it's quite a bit more powerful for about a third of the price, and one screw gives you complete access to the internals with easily-upgradable/replaceable components. Wish I could get a Mac laptop like that.
 




The big downside for anyone doing extensive photo work on that machine is that it uses Intel's Iris graphics over a dedicated video card. I would have bought one last year if Apple had made the dedicated GPU a BTO option, but alas...
I'm kicking myself, as the 2015 discrete GPU models were still available up through a week or two ago - I was pricing them out but didn't pull the trigger. They're now all gone, and I can't find anyone with new units available (other than with just the integrated graphics). Guess I'll keep an eye out for refurbs.
 


I'm kicking myself, as the 2015 discrete GPU models were still available up through a week or two ago - I was pricing them out but didn't pull the trigger. They're now all gone, and I can't find anyone with new units available (other than with just the integrated graphics). Guess I'll keep an eye out for refurbs.
Did you try looking in Amazon?

I am not sure if this is what you want, but there might be other options available

Apple Macbook Pro 15.4 inch laptop with Retina Display

I am not related to that seller but bought this model about a year ago there.
 


I'm kicking myself, as the 2015 discrete GPU models were still available up through a week or two ago - I was pricing them out but didn't pull the trigger. They're now all gone, and I can't find anyone with new units available (other than with just the integrated graphics). Guess I'll keep an eye out for refurbs.
OWC has a refurb section:

https://eshop.macsales.com/configure-my-mac/macbook-pro

As of this post, they had a 2015 15" MacBook Pro with discrete graphics available.

Shortly after the Touchbar models were made available and I saw that Apple's "new" 2015 stock only included integrated graphics models, I quickly purchased a 2015 refurb directly from Apple so it came with the standard Apple 1-year warranty.
 


Did you try looking in Amazon?
Yes, but your search-fu was better than mine! There's one new unit listed, at a premium price, too ($3,000). B&H had the same configuration (2.8GHz, 1TB, Radeon) for around $2700 a couple weeks ago, and Adorama was even cheaper.
OWC has a refurb section… As of this post, they had a 2015 15" MacBook Pro with discrete graphics available.
Fastest listed is a 2.5GHz, as of this writing. Given it's two generations old, I think it would be best to get the fastest available processor.

I think I'll wait and watch for an Apple refurbed unit - they're bound to show up now and then.
 


I'm kicking myself, as the 2015 discrete GPU models were still available up through a week or two ago - I was pricing them out but didn't pull the trigger. They're now all gone, and I can't find anyone with new units available (other than with just the integrated graphics). Guess I'll keep an eye out for refurbs.
eBay routinely has 2.8GHz top-of-the-line 2015 Retinas + discrete graphics cards, usually used but occasionally brand-new, for great prices. Just saw one with a 512GB SSD and only 17 cycles on the battery for $1545. Our entire office is stocked with these. No problems at all. I'm not going anywhere near the 2016/2017 models for various valid reasons.
 


Just looking over the new 2018 MacBook Pros this morning... a 2.9GHz/32GB/1TB Space Grey is how I'd configure one, and it prices out at US $3,900, yikes! If the keyboard issues are fixed (wait six months), it will be tempting.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Some notes on MacBook Pro keyboards and much more:
Mashable said:
Apple upgrades the MacBook Pro, but ignores the elephant in the room
Apple just unveiled a new MacBook Pro. And I've got some good news and some bad news.

Bad news first: Apple has done practically nothing to address the major concerns about the current MacBook Pro design that debuted in October 2016. There's still a questionably practical Touch Bar in place of the function row. The laptop still relies solely on four USB-C ports and a headphone jack for connectivity. And the butterfly keyboard — which many consider a step down from the previous "chiclet" design and can often be notoriously inconvenient to repair — is still there (although Apple made it slightly quieter).

The good news is this isn't just a spec bump, like the 2017 refresh was. The 2018 MacBook Pro, which goes on sale Thursday, is a serious upgrade over the previous generation, bringing new features, hardware, and integrations to what was already a powerful machine. Where the specs go up, they go up a lot, and in doing so address some of the biggest requests from creatives — Apple's primary customers for the MacBook Pro.
 


So the new MacBook Pros... Hmmm...

Probably my biggest concern is the unwanted Touch Bar. I use my function keys now infrequently as function keys, but often for the media and screen control keys. Adding a Touch ID sensor ... meh... okay, I guess. It's gew-gaw for my purposes. I'd like to get my hands on the keyboard and see what's up.

Resolution on the screen is probably the biggest concern. It's 2880x1800, so in Retina mode, effectively 1440x900. Since I can disable Retina mode and use the raw resolution, I guess it's not that big of a deal... Still, it'd be nice to get at least a full 4K display. Curious to see what photo and graphics professionals think of the TrueColor display - is that a plus, or a minus? It's great on the iPhone. I would think it'd be problematic where color fidelity is important (presumably one can turn off this feature, just as you can on the iPhone).

I'm intrigued by the SSD - this seems to be the only area in which this laptop really knocks it out of the park. I'm irritated by lack of user-upgradeable parts, though this is certainly not a new development.

Conclusions: slightly more than a phone-in, slightly less than impressive.
 


Owen Williams, who fled the Mac over the lack of innovation in Apple's laptops, has an interesting—and thorough—review of his first few months with a Surface Book 2.
The Surface Book 2 is everything the MacBook Pro should be

I've been hunting for a great MacBook Pro replacement since early 2017 and while I've been happy with my switch to a desktop machine at home, it's been an interesting journey trying to find something that's on the same all-around hardware and software experience on the laptop side.

Over the past year I've spent time with the Razer Blade, Dell XPS 15 and the Eve V, which are all stellar machines, but I didn't quite feel at home yet. These are fantastic machines that do the job well, but always left something wanting, which I figured I'd need to settle for.

I'm back to say I was wrong, and I've found a machine that not only matches Apple's standard of hardware quality, but goes far beyond it to demonstrate how a laptop of the future should work.
I spent a month or so last summer evaluating the Surface Book 2, and came pretty close to buying one. In the end, I wasn't ready to completely ditch macOS, nor was I willing to replace my iMac as well, which is what I saw coming if I made the switch.
 


DFG

Apple quietly upgraded the MacBook Pro - understandable, since there isn't much to brag about.

The good:
  • max. RAM is increased from 16 GB to 32 GB. A minimal effort. You will pay dearly for the privilege (more than 2x going rate).
  • Latest generation Intel processors with more cores
  • Larger SSD capacities. The premium isn't as big as for RAM, but still expensive.
The bad:
  • similar questionable keyboard. Maybe it will break, maybe not.
  • useless Touchbar (give it up already!)
  • ugly giant trackpad
  • no NVIDIA GPUs
  • no additional ports
The ugly: The price remains the same. The configuration I want is $3600. Apple is pricing itself out of the market.
 



The bad:
  • similar questionable keyboard. Maybe it will break, maybe not.
  • useless Touchbar (give it up already!).
I actually find the touch bar to be useful. Like mice and keyboards, it is a highly personal opinion. The touch bar does take time to get used to, and I forget to use it when it would be easier, but I am so used to not having it. And I work all day long on an iMac, which does not have it. For example, with a misspelled word, you get three proposed words on the touch bar, which is faster. For me, the most useful item is using your finger for logging in instead of using a password.
 


What's your desired configuration? And have you priced that out in a Dell XPS or Inspiron?
I keep pricing out the XPS and a few others. Tempting - I run Win10 in VMware for a few things and it's not "horrible." It's the cost of replacing all my software, some of which has no Windows replacement for legacy/proprietary files, that keeps me from switching (so far).

My wife has a 2011 MacBook Pro 13", and every time I suggest replacing it, she asks about the DVD player. There are no Mac options with a built-in player any more, and she refuses to consider an external. The Pregnancy Resource Center she directs has an old HP laptop she uses (without complaint), so she may actually be the first "reverse switcher" in the house when the time comes.
 


The update is generally a good one, but I'm hugely disappointed that the touchbar-free 13" MacBook Pro didn't get the same updates. Nearly as disappointing that the keyboard failures weren't at least commented on. Prices are pretty eye-popping, too, with the fully decked out MacBook Pro 15" at $6700. (+$3200 of that is for a 4TB SSD, but still.) Upgrading memory/storage remains ridiculously overpriced, sadly.
 


What's your desired configuration? And have you priced that out in a Dell XPS or Inspiron?
My friend Andy Adkins, who's a filmmaker (he directed "An American Ascent," a documentary about the first African-American mountaineering team to attempt Denali), bought a tricked out XPS last summer about the same time I was looking at the Surface Book.

When I decided against the Surface and bought my 15" MacBook Pro, I loaned it to Andy for a weekend, so he could see how Premiere and After Effects would be on it. When he returned it to me, he had already ordered the Dell. It was cheaper, with more RAM, and a better GPU, and it was much, much faster for his work than my 16GB/1TB MacBook Pro with the GPU. He spent a good month configuring the Dell with tools and utilities, and was able to move into Windows fairly easily. (Quick Look was surprisingly one of the things he missed most, but it turns out there are a couple of Windows utilities that come close enough.)

He still works on his Hackintosh most of the time, but the Dell laptop is a dream for when he's on the road and needs to do production work.

And when I look at this morning's puny little MacBook Pro update—which would be fine for a mid-year update after a new release—I get thinking about the Surface Book all over again. I don't need a new laptop, but if I did, I think I'd go there over anything Apple had. The one hitch for me is that, if I were going to do it, I still think I'd need to go all-in on Windows—desktop and laptop; going back and forth between two different OSes/UIs would drive me batty. Or maybe not. Andy seems to be doing fine with it.
 


Nearly as disappointing that the keyboard failures weren't at least commented on.
"Third generation keyboard" was mentioned in the press release, and that was more commentary than I expected. Why would a company comment on a failure of their own from the recent past while introducing the succeeding product? For example, the press release for the iPhone 4s mentioned improved antenna design, but it didn't go into detail on the design failure of the iPhone 4 antenna.
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
Why would a company comment on a failure of their own from the recent past while introducing the succeeding product?
I think the question is more along the lines of "why would a company's lawyers allow the company to acknowledge defects when the company is involved in multiple lawsuits by its customers over those defects?"

But it struck me as odd for Apple to say it's introducing a third-generation keyboard that's "quieter" without saying anything that would indicate to potential buyers that a gross defect is no longer a problem if they're deciding what to buy among Dell, Microsoft and Apple options.
 
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Owen Williams, who fled the Mac over the lack of innovation in Apple's laptops, has an interesting—and thorough—review of his first few months with a Surface Book 2.

I spent a month or so last summer evaluating the Surface Book 2, and came pretty close to buying one. In the end, I wasn't ready to completely ditch macOS, nor was I willing to replace my iMac as well, which is what I saw coming if I made the switch.
I support a law firm that uses Surface Pro 2s for their staff of 7. They are nice, but of the 7 they bought, 2 had serious issues that required sending them back to Microsoft for replacements within a couple of months. That's, what, a 29% failure rate within the first 3 months. So, while I was at first tempted by them, I quickly became wary of them and their apparent QC issues (at least from my experience). On the plus side, Microsoft was very good about the whole thing. Not sure if that's just great customer service or they are aware of a large failure rate with these. As always your milage may vary.
 


Any thoughts folks... what are the chances my current MacBook Pro 2017 keyboard repair, at Apple now, will include the supposed, newly designed 2018 iteration as a replacement?

Are keyboards actually a separate component, i.e. does a repair on a 2017 necessitate a
replacement with a 2017-keyboard-hardware-battery-glue-up?
 


I think the question is more along the lines of "why would a company's lawyers allow the company to acknowledge defects when the company is involved in multiple lawsuits by its customers over those defects?"
But it struck me as odd for Apple to say it's introducing a third-generation keyboard that's "quieter" without saying anything that would indicate to potential buyers that a gross defect is no longer a problem when they're deciding what to buy among Dell, Microsoft and Apple options.
Apple's recent announcement that the company is extending keyboard warranties and reimbursing those who paid for keyboard repairs will most likely gut the class actions. Probably the attorneys who filed them will be paid by Apple, but if Apple fixes the keyboards and reimburses customers who already paid, there's not much of a lawsuit left.

The specs on the new MacBook Pros bring them up to, or at least most of the way up to, where WinTel competitors have been for some time. New energy-efficient cores should be a big improvement.

I'm curious about the $699 eGPU, not that I need one. The MacWorld Award-winning $299 Razer Core X seems to offer better specs and has the advantage of being upgradeable. Then, adding a Mac-compatible GPU card will erase much of Razer's immediate price advantage, though the Razer site lists quite a few Mac-compatible cards, so there may be cheaper and more powerful options for the knowledgeable to consider.
https://www.razer.com/gaming-laptops/razer-core-x
 


Ric Ford

MacInTouch
I'm curious about the $699 eGPU, not that I need one. The MacWorld Award-winning $299 Razer Core X seems to offer better specs and has the advantage of being upgradeable. Then, adding a Mac-compatible GPU card will erase much of Razer's immediate price advantage, though the Razer site lists quite a few Mac-compatible cards, so there may be cheaper and more powerful options for the knowledgeable to consider.
Yes, Blackmagic's $699 eGPU includes the GPU, while the $299 Razer Core X doesn't. (Razer Core X is just a Thunderbolt 3 box with a PCIe slot, like a bunch of other products.) Blackmagic eGPU actually looks pretty good for the price to me, but I don't have a computer with Thunderbolt 3 nor the budget for it.
 


I support a law firm that uses Surface Pro 2s for their staff of 7. They are nice, but of the 7 they bought, 2 had serious issues that required sending them back to Microsoft for replacements within a couple of months. That's, what, a 29% failure rate within the first 3 months. So, while I was at first tempted by them, I quickly became wary of them and their apparent QC issues (at least from my experience). On the plus side, Microsoft was very good about the whole thing. Not sure if that's just great customer service or they are aware of a large failure rate with these. As always your milage may vary.
I do know of people who had experiences similar to yours, and they said that Microsoft was quick to take care of them as well, so there's that.

I have no illusions about quality with any vendor any more, sadly, and QC was a concern during my search with both Microsoft and Dell. I quite liked the Surface Pro I played with, but, in the end, there were too many unknowns for me to switch over.
 


Yes, Blackmagic's $699 eGPU includes the GPU, while the $299 Razer Core X doesn't. (Razer Core X is just a Thunderbolt 3 box with a PCIe slot, like a bunch of other products.) Blackmagic eGPU actually looks pretty good for the price to me, but I don't have a computer with Thunderbolt 3 nor the budget for it.
Many of us have lamented about the difficulty of upgrading and repairing Apple's products. The BlackMagic eGPU is like that. It's a "fair" price for the gadget with its 2017 Radeon 580 - but there's no upgrading to better GPUs.

The HP Omen Accelerator eGPU can function as a Thunderbolt dock with Ethernet, USB, and even has a slot for a 2.5" drive. Razer's Core X is less flexible but can run today's and tomorrow's high-end graphics cards. Both are $299 on Amazon, as is the Mac-compatible Sapphire 11265-05-20G Radeon PULSE RX 580 8GB, also $299 on Amazon.

$299 for the "box," $299 for the same GPU as in the Blackmagic, about $100 in change for ear plugs, if your new eGPU is too loud, and possibly future proofed.
 


... Are keyboards actually a separate component, i.e. does a repair on a 2017 necessitate a replacement with a 2017-keyboard-hardware-battery-glue-up?
Everything I've read says Apple is replacing the bad keyboards with a new upper case. This includes all the glued in or attached components. I know it includes the battery and trackpad. I believe it includes the speakers.

Removing glued in components can easily damage them. That's one reason glued together devices get such a low serviceability rating on sites like iFixit.
 


DFG

What's your desired configuration? And have you priced that out in a Dell XPS or Inspiron?
Yes, I am comparing prices with the Dell XPS 15, a PC which aims for the same spot as the MacBook Pro.




MacBook Pro 15"

Dell XPS 15

Processor

i7-8850H(?), 2.6 GHz, 6 cores

i7-8750H, 2.2 GHz, 6 cores

RAM

32 GB DDR4 (+$400!)

32 GB DDR4

SSD

1 TB

1 TB

GPU

Radeon Pro 560X

NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti

Display

2280x1800, 500 nits

3840x2160, 400 nits

Price

$3,599

$2,550

Those are two very similar machines. You can argue that the case of the MacBook Pro is better (and I would agree). OTOH, the Dell is a lot more user serviceable.

But that's a cool $1,000 difference! Looking as hard as I may, I can't see a justification for it.
 


The update is generally a good one, but I'm hugely disappointed that the touchbar-free 13" MacBook Pro didn't get the same updates. Nearly as disappointing that the keyboard failures weren't at least commented on. Prices are pretty eye-popping, too, with the fully decked out MacBook Pro 15" at $6700. (+$3200 of that is for a 4TB SSD, but still.) Upgrading memory/storage remains ridiculously overpriced, sadly.
I wonder how much of that three thousand two hundred dollars for a 4TB SSD is pure profit. I truly hope a third-party shows up with vastly superior prices and we determine the SSD is somehow user-replaceable. At least we can hope and pray....
 


My Mid-2012 MacBook Pro 15" Retina has served me well over the last 6 years. Quite a feat, given that I use it for statistical calculations on sometimes pretty big datasets. I've specced out a replacement (max CPU, i.e. the i9 instead of the i7, 1TB SSD, 32GB) and compared it to the inflation-adjusted price of my current workhorse. Ahem… 63% increase…

Still, even at this price I'm going to wait if any teething problems manifest and then I'm probably going to spring for one.
 



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